Originally posted by FabianFnasthe link he gave is just about a spoiled carcass caught by fisherment of something that resembled a plesiosaur. but it was tossed overboard. i submit the idea that kelly didn't fully read the link(i don't blame him, i got bored too.) but i did get to the point, probably farther than him, where it said what it could possibly be, a decayed shark, a giant sea turtle without the shell, etc.
Because I didn't see any cave drawing of dinosaurs there. Can you specificly give the place, or quote directly from the link were you find a proof of a dino cave drawing? I think not.
I certainly don't read over 8 000 words in 21 pages in a foreign language just to please you...
[edit] I gave it another chance, I searched for the word "cave" and fo ...[text shortened]... serch for the word "painting" and found nothing. Are you sure you gave me the right link?
whatever the case, it is far from being a conclusive proof that dinos roam the land. if anyone calls it as such, then we can assume Nessie is real, and aliens are comming here on vacation because we also have photos of them. and photos of big foot as well.
read it more carefully, here are some excerpts--
Japanese shark-fin processors, who are thoroughly familiar with shark carcasses, identified the animal in Yano's photographs as a shark (Abe 1978).
-- In September 1977, a positively identified basking shark carcass was stranded at Nemuro, Hokkaido, and showed a remarkable resemblance to the Zuiyo-maru carcass found only five months earlier. Describing the September stranding Omura, Mochizuki, and Kamiya (1978, p 59-60) wrote, "The jaws and gill-arches were missing, and the cranium had a somewhat turtle-like appearance...the pectoral and pelvic fins were damaged at their apexes but still remained. The results of this experiment undertaken by nature support the view that the Zuiyo-maru carcass was a giant shark that has lost its jaws and gill arches."
Summarizing their findings, Hasegawa and Uyeno (1978) state, "Based on available evidence, we are convinced that this New Zealand creature is not the "New Nessie," that much of the world was hoping for, but more than likely a carcass belonging to a large size shark."
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Recommendations to Future Monster Finders
Before closing, a word of friendly advice is offered to anyone who might come upon an unidentified sea creature in the future. Although it is fortunate that Yano thought to take tissue samples, had he or others on board saved the animal's head or even a vertebra (which could have been sealed in a bucket or other container to avoid fish contamination), much time, effort, and speculation could have been avoided. In most cases even a single skeletal element would allow scientists to readily identify an unknown creature. It also would have been wise to take more photos, including close-ups of the head and other body parts, rather than just a few distant shots. That these things were not done suggests that the crew did not even suspect the creature could be a plesiosaur until others later suggested this. After all, even among a group of fishermen someone should have realized that a prehistoric "sea-monster" would be worth incalculably more both financially and scientifically than a load of mackerel. As it turned out, there is little doubt that they actually caught a decomposed shark.
Nevertheless, it is possible that unknown creatures do still lurk in the ocean depths. As evidence, only five months before the Zuiyo-maru incident a naval research vessel near Hawaii accidentally snagged a bizarre, 4.5 meter (15 foot) long shark in its parachute-like sea-anchor. The curious fish had an unusually large head and wide, bowl-shaped jaws--features which soon earned it the nickname "megamouth." Its jaws were filled with hundreds of tiny teeth, and opened at the top rather than at the bottom as in most other sharks. Even stranger, the inside of the mouth seemed to glow with a silvery light. Apparently megamouth uses its reflective mouth tissue to attract tiny crustaceans while feeding in deep water, where little sunlight penetrates. Eventually the odd selachian was given the scientific name Megachasma pelagios, and was determined to represent a new species, genus, and family of shark (Welfare and Fairley 1980; Soule 1981). Coincidentally, the megamouth is now considered a close relative of the basking shark.
Originally posted by ZahlanziBut he ranted something like "There are cave drawings of them", so I expected to find something about cave drawings, not a water animal carcasse. Is this a new sort of KellyJay retorics, is it? Well, it worked bad.
the link he gave is just about a spoiled carcass caught by fisherment of something that resembled a plesiosaur. but it was tossed overboard. i submit the idea that kelly didn't fully read the link(i don't blame him, i got bored too.) but i did get to the point, probably farther than him, where it said what it could possibly be, a decayed shark, a giant sea ...[text shortened]... comming here on vacation because we also have photos of them. and photos of big foot as well.
I still want to see any proof that man and dino lived at the same time. If his chiristian faith tells him that, then I have to conclude that religion and science cannot coexist, as intelligence and KJ kind of creationists cannot.
You have still the chance, KJ, to show us some evidence...
Originally posted by FabianFnasit was a different subject. i heard of a cave drawing of a long necked animal too. can't remember where so i can't give you a link.
But he ranted something like "There are cave drawings of them", so I expected to find something about cave drawings, not a water animal carcasse. Is this a new sort of KellyJay retorics, is it? Well, it worked bad.
I still want to see any proof that man and dino lived at the same time. If his chiristian faith tells him that, then I have to conclude tha ...[text shortened]... KJ kind of creationists cannot.
You have still the chance, KJ, to show us some evidence...
but as i said, if that is considered proof of dinos living with humans, then i have some bigfoot pictures i would like to sell anyone willing. we invented faeries, orcs, elves, dragons. apparently, cavemen do not have the ability to lie, to phantasize.
Originally posted by KellyJayI checked it;
There are cave drawings of them, but I gave you a link, and you
didn't respond about that. Did you look at it?
Kelly
As originally published in "Reports of the National Center for Science Education" (May/ June 1997, Vol. 17, No. 3, pp. 16-28), Glen J. Kuban shows that this "monster" was a decomposed busking shark.
The epilogue of the article is this:
"Conclusions.
Several lines of evidence strongly indicate that the Zuiyo-maru carcass was a large shark, and most likely a basking shark, rather than a plesiosaur. Those giving the opposite impression have done so by telling only part of the story, or mischaracterizing portions of the evidence. To help set the record straight, such authors should correct any misleading statements of the past on this issue, and refrain from any further suggestions that the carcass was a likely plesiosaur."
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonCould you perhaps expand on this a bit more?
If you understand the science of modern-day cosmology you should understand that modern-day cosmology does not say nor imply in any way that the universe came into existence by an “accident”.
The main-stream big bang theory kind of implies that the berth of the universe was not a “caused event” nor even an “uncaused event” for it wasn’t even an “ev ...[text shortened]... us don’t erroneously believe that the universe had to be created by some kind of “big accident”.
Originally posted by buckky".... it has turned off thinking individuals from even sticking their toe in the spiritual arena."
I see the problem with Christianity as being, it has turned off thinking individuals from even sticking their toe in the spiritual arena. A smart friend of mine claims to be an athiest because Christianity is so nut's in so many ways, and God must be a fictional character because the Christian's paint such a looney tune vision of diety. There is great big wo ...[text shortened]... incomprenensible to me just as much as the Christian story that does not charm me in any way.
Is that so ? You are making a hasty generalisation here ...
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/hastygeneralisation.html
Originally posted by ivanhoePeople like me never generalize. Others do all the time.
".... it has turned off thinking individuals from even sticking their toe in the spiritual arena."
Is that so ? You are making a hasty generalisation here ...
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/hastygeneralisation.html
Originally posted by FabianFnasSee? There you go again. You admit KJ is not un-intelligent (in another forum), and then you say right here that he is. Creationists who believe dinos rocked the planet with homo sapiens are NOT unintelligent. In my opinion, they are in error, but they're not stupid.
... as intelligence and KJ kind of creationists cannot.
What is so hard to comprehend about this?
Originally posted by buckkyIf I may throw my two cents worth into this debate, the problem isn't with Christianity but with man.
I see the problem with Christianity as being, it has turned off thinking individuals from even sticking their toe in the spiritual arena. A smart friend of mine claims to be an athiest because Christianity is so nut's in so many ways, and God must be a fictional character because the Christian's paint such a looney tune vision of diety. There is great big wo ...[text shortened]... incomprenensible to me just as much as the Christian story that does not charm me in any way.
If what the Bible says is true, then it should come as no wonder that Christianity becomes the brunt of every kind of criticism.
Christianity, in it's purest form, is about peace with God and fellow man.
But in the course of history, due to the nature of man, and the fact of there being an adversary, i.e. Satan, is it any wonder that the truth of God and His word should have been so corrupted?
If it were not for God and all true believers in this world, by now there would be nothing left alive.
Originally posted by PinkFloydWhy does an intelligent man like KJ reason so unintelligently? That's what I'm wonder. It is really a paradox.
See? There you go again. You admit KJ is not un-intelligent (in another forum), and then you say right here that he is. Creationists who believe dinos rocked the planet with homo sapiens are NOT unintelligent. In my opinion, they are in error, but they're not stupid.
What is so hard to comprehend about this?
Hitler was also intelligent, but yet so full of evil. He should realize that jews had a value in his country, not worth wiping out. So (again the same paradox) why was an intelligent man like Hitler reason so unintelligently?
The latest point KJ is trying to make is that dinos and man lived side by side, even that Noah, brought dinos, two of each specie, in his ark. I thin that one single T-Rex is enough to make the passenger list in the ark into an grand dinner for our friend T-Rex.
Now this statement is far to unintelligently put for an intelligent man as KJ. This is the paradox.
He gives us a 8000 word article to prove his point, showing a carcass of something from the deep sea. Again a futile attempt to prove something obviously wrong. Very unintelligenly done by an intelligent man.
I don't think he is unintelligent, he just behave like this. But why? Is he paid off to do it? Is he non-aware of how science works? Does satan whisper in his ears? Or is he plain stupid? I don't know. But every intelligent person, KJ inclusive, should know the proposterous statements coming from KJ's keyboard is plain wrong. Why? And that is the paradox...
But really, I don't think KJ want us to analyze his intellignece. I just answer the question, I wouldn't do it otherwise.
There are plenty of people who believe in a "young earth", and for valid reasons. They don't accept our scientific dating methods as being accurate. We can't truly be certain of the distances from earth to distant stars and galaxies; if we could, there would be no differences in various science books. Yet when I type "distance from earth to Andromeda" into the little google rectangle, I get 5 different answers within the first 5 different posts. Cepheids aren't terribly reliable in the minds of the Young Earthers either and, frankly, from what I've read, I can't really blame them.
As I said, I'm a Christian who believes God created everything and He used a Big Bang to do it about 13.5 or so billion years ago. But I am not so arrogant that I would state that anyone who doesn't hold this same belief is in any way less intelligent than I.