Spirituality
06 Nov 11
06 Nov 11
1 edit
The "Elect."
Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.
Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.
It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the elect," they see it as self-exaltation. As if to say that Christians are so special they were chosen above others.
In actuality, when a Christian realizes that there was nothing special or superior in them that caused them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidAMEN.
The "Elect."
Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.
Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.
It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
07 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidHumbling indeed, but what does it mean?
The "Elect."
Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.
Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.
It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
Some believe it means "chosen" as opposed to being "not chosen". In other words, God "elected" some to be saved and the rest to be lost. Certainly the "elect" is a reference to the saved, but some give it the additional meaning of having been selected to be saved while all the rest were selected to be lost.
Generally these verses are used to support that view.
Romans 8:29,30- For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The idea that some are "elected" to salvation while others are not is supported by the interpretation of the "foreknowledge" of God, and His "predestinating" some to salvation and the rest to damnation.
It's an erroneous interpretation. God "foreknew" those who would "believe", and subsequently created something for them to be "predestinated" to. Namely Christ.
07 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidTRUE CHRISTIANS™ - holier than thou.
The "Elect."
Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.
Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.
It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
07 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by sumydidWhy should there ever be a need for a Christian to ".. refers him/herself as one of "the elect," . To my mind, making such a statement does in fact seem to be self-exaltation. The simple reason is that nobody knows who are the elect. When Christ returns he will gather his elect from wherever they are.
The "Elect."
Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.
Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.
It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
Many of the apostles never would have thought that Saul was one of the elect. They were wrong. Christ said .. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75The elect and chosen of God are all believers in Christ as the Lord.
What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
(Colossians 3:5-17 NASB)
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality,
impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. For it
is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of
disobedience, and in them you also once walked, when you were living in
them. But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander,
and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you
laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self
who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the
One who created him—a renewal in which there is no distinction between
Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave
and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart
of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one
another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone;
just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. Beyond all these things
put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. Let the peace of Christ rule
in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and
admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing
with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the
Father.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by josephwThen you disagree with St. Augustine.
Humbling indeed, but what does it mean?
Some believe it means "chosen" as opposed to being "not chosen". In other words, God "elected" some to be saved and the rest to be lost. Certainly the "elect" is a reference to the saved, but some give it the additional meaning of having been selected to be saved while all the rest were selected to be lost.
Gener ...[text shortened]... quently created something for them to be "predestinated" to. Namely Christ.
He (rightfully in my mind) concluded that faith simply isn't possible without the grace of God.
You can take it from there and it penetrates deep (no this isn't that other thread), because the clear implication is, faith is not achieved by our action, but by God's action. Like the bible says, no one can approach God until such time as God draws them to Him.
08 Nov 11
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75Creating exclusivity is easy...
What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
Joining a man made organisation in order to be part of that "elect"?
Subscribing without question (to authority) to that organisations beliefs, doctrines, rules and ordinances?
Sufficiently corrupt the doctrinal pillars of a particular religion to ensure new organisation is"stand alone"
Limiting the number of the elect to 144,000 to create a "be the best you can be - work the hardest you can to ensure you get in" culture
Creating a mind-set that leaving the said organisation loses membership of the "elect"?
Doing lots of activities - mostly based around proselyting new 144,000 'hopefuls' to increase the finance base of the operation?
Make big impressive prophetic statements to impress the members
*Danger: Get lots of prophetic statements wrong over a period of decades - stop making prophetic statements...
Forbid the giving/taking of blood to the save lives of loved ones?
Once in, forbid marriage outside of the organisation?
There really is lots you can do when you put your mind to it.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidWhich argument raises two questions:
You can take it from there and it penetrates deep (no this isn't that other thread), because the clear implication is, faith is not achieved by our action, but by God's action. Like the bible says, no one can approach God until such time as God draws them to Him.
1. Is that a just God, who only accepts into heaven those that believe, but personally chooses those that believe based on some unknown criteria?
2. Why do Christians bother trying to evangelise, when faith has nothing to do with there actions (or those being preached to) but is purely a decision by God.
08 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadHe is just because He chooses those who WILL believe. Christians evangelize
Which argument raises two questions:
1. Is that a just God, who only accepts into heaven those that believe, but personally chooses those that believe based on some unknown criteria?
2. Why do Christians bother trying to evangelise, when faith has nothing to do with there actions (or those being preached to) but is purely a decision by God.
to give those who WILL believe the oportunity to demonstrate their faith by
being baptized publicly into the Body of Christ. God is the Creator and has
the right and authority to make any decison He choses, but He chooses to
make just decisions. HalleluYah !!!