1. Standard membersumydid
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    06 Nov '11 07:411 edit
    The "Elect."

    Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.

    Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.

    It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the elect," they see it as self-exaltation. As if to say that Christians are so special they were chosen above others.

    In actuality, when a Christian realizes that there was nothing special or superior in them that caused them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Nov '11 08:09
    Originally posted by sumydid
    The "Elect."

    Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.

    Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.

    It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
    AMEN.
  3. Joined
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    07 Nov '11 13:52
    Originally posted by sumydid
    The "Elect."

    Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.

    Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.

    It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
    Humbling indeed, but what does it mean?

    Some believe it means "chosen" as opposed to being "not chosen". In other words, God "elected" some to be saved and the rest to be lost. Certainly the "elect" is a reference to the saved, but some give it the additional meaning of having been selected to be saved while all the rest were selected to be lost.

    Generally these verses are used to support that view.

    Romans 8:29,30- For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


    The idea that some are "elected" to salvation while others are not is supported by the interpretation of the "foreknowledge" of God, and His "predestinating" some to salvation and the rest to damnation.

    It's an erroneous interpretation. God "foreknew" those who would "believe", and subsequently created something for them to be "predestinated" to. Namely Christ.
  4. Donationrwingett
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    07 Nov '11 14:08
    Originally posted by sumydid
    The "Elect."

    Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.

    Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.

    It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the ...[text shortened]... used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
    TRUE CHRISTIANS™ - holier than thou.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Nov '11 14:501 edit
    Originally posted by sumydid
    The "Elect."

    Jesus and Paul made many references to these people.

    Reformed Christians like myself, believe that the term refers to all true Christians.

    It's a term that not only creates division among Christian ranks, but also (from my experience) causes most skeptics to cringe. They cringe because when a Christian refers him/herself as one of "the used them to conform to the body of Christ, it is or should be, a very humbling experience.
    Why should there ever be a need for a Christian to ".. refers him/herself as one of "the elect," . To my mind, making such a statement does in fact seem to be self-exaltation. The simple reason is that nobody knows who are the elect. When Christ returns he will gather his elect from wherever they are.

    Many of the apostles never would have thought that Saul was one of the elect. They were wrong. Christ said .. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
  6. Standard memberRBHILL
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    07 Nov '11 17:451 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    - holier than thou.
    I have heard people use that term to even non-christians.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Nov '11 00:06
    Originally posted by rwingett
    [b]TRUE CHRISTIANS™ - holier than thou.[/b]
    Do the will of God and you too can be one of the elect.
  8. Joined
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    08 Nov '11 00:34
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do the will of God and you too can be one of the elect.
    What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
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    08 Nov '11 01:33
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
    a need to feel special.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Nov '11 02:59
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
    The elect and chosen of God are all believers in Christ as the Lord.

    (Colossians 3:5-17 NASB)
    Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality,
    impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. For it
    is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of
    disobedience, and in them you also once walked, when you were living in
    them. But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander,
    and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you
    laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self
    who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the
    One who created him—a renewal in which there is no distinction between
    Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave
    and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

    So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart
    of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one
    another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone;
    just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. Beyond all these things
    put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. Let the peace of Christ rule
    in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
    Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and
    admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing
    with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed,
    do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the
    Father.
  11. Standard membersumydid
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    08 Nov '11 05:23
    Originally posted by josephw
    Humbling indeed, but what does it mean?

    Some believe it means "chosen" as opposed to being "not chosen". In other words, God "elected" some to be saved and the rest to be lost. Certainly the "elect" is a reference to the saved, but some give it the additional meaning of having been selected to be saved while all the rest were selected to be lost.

    Gener ...[text shortened]... quently created something for them to be "predestinated" to. Namely Christ.
    Then you disagree with St. Augustine.

    He (rightfully in my mind) concluded that faith simply isn't possible without the grace of God.

    You can take it from there and it penetrates deep (no this isn't that other thread), because the clear implication is, faith is not achieved by our action, but by God's action. Like the bible says, no one can approach God until such time as God draws them to Him.
  12. Standard membersumydid
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    08 Nov '11 05:24
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
    God giving someone His saving grace is the qualification. Right?
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    08 Nov '11 07:213 edits
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What would qualify one to be of the elect or chosen ones?
    Creating exclusivity is easy...

    Joining a man made organisation in order to be part of that "elect"?
    Subscribing without question (to authority) to that organisations beliefs, doctrines, rules and ordinances?
    Sufficiently corrupt the doctrinal pillars of a particular religion to ensure new organisation is"stand alone"
    Limiting the number of the elect to 144,000 to create a "be the best you can be - work the hardest you can to ensure you get in" culture
    Creating a mind-set that leaving the said organisation loses membership of the "elect"?
    Doing lots of activities - mostly based around proselyting new 144,000 'hopefuls' to increase the finance base of the operation?
    Make big impressive prophetic statements to impress the members
    *Danger: Get lots of prophetic statements wrong over a period of decades - stop making prophetic statements...
    Forbid the giving/taking of blood to the save lives of loved ones?
    Once in, forbid marriage outside of the organisation?

    There really is lots you can do when you put your mind to it.
  14. Cape Town
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    08 Nov '11 09:08
    Originally posted by sumydid
    You can take it from there and it penetrates deep (no this isn't that other thread), because the clear implication is, faith is not achieved by our action, but by God's action. Like the bible says, no one can approach God until such time as God draws them to Him.
    Which argument raises two questions:
    1. Is that a just God, who only accepts into heaven those that believe, but personally chooses those that believe based on some unknown criteria?
    2. Why do Christians bother trying to evangelise, when faith has nothing to do with there actions (or those being preached to) but is purely a decision by God.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Nov '11 09:551 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Which argument raises two questions:
    1. Is that a just God, who only accepts into heaven those that believe, but personally chooses those that believe based on some unknown criteria?
    2. Why do Christians bother trying to evangelise, when faith has nothing to do with there actions (or those being preached to) but is purely a decision by God.
    He is just because He chooses those who WILL believe. Christians evangelize
    to give those who WILL believe the oportunity to demonstrate their faith by
    being baptized publicly into the Body of Christ. God is the Creator and has
    the right and authority to make any decison He choses, but He chooses to
    make just decisions. HalleluYah !!!
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