Originally posted by josephw Who cares what hundreds of millions of anyone espouse? The so called "grotesque ideology", as you describe it and label Christians with, is your own opinion of what is taught by scripture.
This "grotesque ideology" is explicitly "taught" by several of the Christians who regularly post here.
Originally posted by FMF What "worse fate" has man conceived of than being tortured for eternity in burning agony?
CRUCIFIXION
We moderns still recoil with horror when we hear of Christ's crucifixion. But what did the ancients think of crucifixion? They considered it to be the most shameful, the most painful, and the most abhorrent of all executions. The Roman statesman Cicero called it "the most cruel and disgusting penalty" (Verrem 2:5.165) and "the most extreme penalty" (Verrem 2:5.168). The Jewish historian Josephus, who certainly witnessed enough crucifixions himself, called it "the most wretched of deaths." The Roman jurist Julius Paulus listed crucifixion in first place as the worst of all capital punishments, listing it ahead of death by burning, death by beheading, or death by the wild beasts. And from Seneca we have this quotation, which is one of the most unique descriptions of a crucifixion in non-Biblical literature:
Can anyone be found who would prefer wasting away in pain dying limb by limb, or letting out his life drop by drop, rather than expiring once for all? Can any man by found willing to be fastened to the accursed tree, long sickly, already deformed, swelling with ugly wounds on shoulders and chest, and drawing the breath of life amid long drawn-out agony? He would have many excuses for dying even before mounting the cross (Dialogue 3:2.2).
The ancients considered death by crucifixion to be not just any execution, but the most obscene, the most disgraceful, the most horrific execution known to man.
We moderns still recoil with horror when we hear of Christ's crucifixion. [b]But what did the ancients think of crucifixion? They considered it to be the most shameful, the most painful, and the most abhorrent of all executions. The Roman statesman Cicero called it "the most cruel and disgusting penalty" (Verrem 2:5.165) and "the most ...[text shortened]... ost horrific execution known to man.
http://www.orlutheran.com/html/crucify.html[/b]Even if the crucifixion is the considered to be the worst form of execution devised by man the question that was actually asked of you was:
"What "worse fate" has man conceived of than being tortured for eternity in burning agony?"
We could equally well substitute crucifying for burning in the above to get an infinity of crucifixions. The point here is that the crucifixion is a one-shot deal - which for all the suffering experienced by the participant, is finite. Suffering in hell on the other hand is infinite.
The god you believe in has set up a system where agonising pain is meted out, infinitely often to those who have committed finitely many "crimes", each of finite extent. This is not a measured response to any form of transgression.
Originally posted by FMF How strange your ministry as a Christian here is. You will confront people who have different beliefs from you ~ non-Christians ~ about what your fellow Christians explicitly claim in the name of your God and religion, but you won't confront those Christians themselves.
I've confronted Christians, but it is not something I do as a rule. They get
confronted by the godless all the time. My main concern is not be right on
every topic, but be right with Jesus Christ, and if they are that, the rest
will work itself out.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJay I've confronted Christians, but it is not something I do as a rule. They get
confronted by the godless all the time. My main concern is not be right on
every topic, but be right with Jesus Christ, and if they are that, the rest
will work itself out.
Kelly
It's odd how you talk to ME about how you don't agree with the ideology of other Christians and not to them. Then again, your ideology is much of a muchness with theirs; the product of the human imagination at its most depraved. 😉
Originally posted by FMF This "grotesque ideology" is explicitly "taught" by several of the Christians who regularly post here.
"Grotesque ideology" is your term.
What Christians "teach" is what the Word of God says, and given the nature of matters spiritual, it's no wonder there are differing views. There are many "religions" to choose from, and each has its own take on such things as heaven and hell.
Your objectivity is one sided. You know the scriptures teach that there is a lake of fire were all those who's names are not written in the book of life are "cast" into. But you take the cop out that since you don't recognize the Bible as being the Word of God, you feel free to impugn the faith of those who trust and believe God's Word.
Probably angers you because you lost the faith. Maybe that's why you do it.
Originally posted by FMF What "worse fate" has man conceived of than being tortured for eternity in burning agony?
It's only your opinion that man conceived of the lake of fire. God created the lake of fire. Man didn't. You obviously don't believe there is a lake of fire.
To your way of thinking, maybe there is a God, but if there is a God He went away without a single word of explanation. Just left us here to fend for ourselves.
But if the Word of God is true, and there really is a lake of fire burning with brimstone, I'm of the opinion that incineration is instantaneous, that is if the bodies of those raised from their graves to stand before God to be judged for their sins is like the bodies we have now!
And if their souls continue to exist they will be in the lake suffering something far worse than burning.
Originally posted by josephw Your objectivity is one sided. You know the scriptures teach that there is a lake of fire were all those who's names are not written in the book of life are "cast" into. But you take the cop out that since you don't recognize the Bible as being the Word of God, you feel free to impugn the faith of those who trust and believe God's Word.
If I believe that it is a man made ideology and that it is the darkest one ever conceived of by mankind, then what opinion am I supposed to express? You seem to object to the fact that my views are those of non-Christian. What else am I supposed to do but impugn the ideology and the wretched imaginations that created it, when the eternal torture issue comes up, if it is indeed in my view grotesque? It's because I see the ideology as man made that I make the comments I do. It is not a "cop out" in any shape or form.
31 Aug '14 19:49
The Fear Of God
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