The Good Father

@philokalia said
Do you reject God?

I don't find any of the thousands of supposedly "revealed Gods" down through history - with their religions attendant thereto - to be credible or convincing. I cannot pretend that I do. I do not reject the idea that there is some sort of creator entity or being.

@philokalia said

"Pride"? "Pretend"?

Who's to say you aren't "pretending" to be a genuine believer in the teachings of the Orthodox Catholic Church? Not me. I'll leave that kind of 'debating point' to you.

You are right- I could also be a faker. Feel free to advance that position.

No, as I said. I will leave this kind of 'debating point' to you. It is you who has suggested that people like me are "fakers". I will not "advance that position" with regard to you. If you believe that I am a "faker", that is your prerogative. But it just sounds like a rhetorical gimmick intended to dismiss the point of view being put to you.

@philokalia said
The rejection of God is a deeply held belief and absolutely is chosen; those who reject God put themselves away from God. It is up to them, their choice.

Try to remember that you are not talking to a fellow Christian. I did not choose to lose my faith. You are offering me no "God" to reject. All you have to offer is some elaborate man-made dogma generated by an organization called the Orthodox Catholic Church.

@philokalia said

If you want to talk to people who contend that there "there can be no God", you're addressing the wrong poster.

Feel free to elucidate your position, or not.

But I have. Numerous times. It may have been in those hundreds of posts where you chose not to use the Quote function so as not to have to respond directly to the content of my posts. I do not contend that "there can be no God", as you well know, because I have said that to you point-blank, and explained, countless times over the last 4 years. Asking me to type it out for you again is just a gimmick.

@philokalia said
When did I say that non-believers universally go to hell?

I don't know. But you have, on several occasions, asserted that non-believers torture THEMSELVES in burning flames for eternity and that God has nothing to do with it. You are splitting hairs here about the ridiculousness of what you believe about eternal torture

@philokalia said
OK, so now that we have your insults and evasion of the original question out of the way...

"Insults and evasion"? You're mistaken. Indeed, I think characterizing my posts' content as "insults and evasion" is a signal that you will later claim that you cannot remember what I said or you cannot remember reading it.

@philokalia said
I do not know what my pride would have to do with this.

If you want to talk to people who contend that there "there can be no God", you're addressing the wrong poster.

I have no way of knowing if your pride is involved in your deployment of this strawman; you know full well that I don't contend that there is no God.

@fmf said
I don't find any of the thousands of supposedly "revealed Gods" down through history - with their religions attendant thereto - to be credible or convincing. I cannot pretend that I do. I do not reject the idea that there is some sort of creator entity or being.

One of the other common molehills from which atheists like to pop up and attack theism: all those other gods.

Yes, we know you are an atheist, and that there are competing views on religious truth... ^^

@fmf said
No, as I said. I will leave this kind of 'debating point' to you. It is you who has suggested that people like me are "fakers". I will not "advance that position" with regard to you. If you believe that I am a "faker", that is your prerogative. But it just sounds like a rhetorical gimmick intended to dismiss the point of view being put to you.

I am just suggesting that people who claim that they are incredibly certain of a thing may not actually be. I think this is common. People talk about a thing as if they are very sure of it but then allow for an exception.

I thought anglo-types really liked this: the English intellectual world has been hypnotized by Russell and are all about the exception, so much so that the fact that 1 in 10,000 people are born with some conflicting intersex features or an even rarer number opens the door for the total dismissal of biological gender in the minds of many.

I also seem to recollect that a couple years ago or so you were open to the idea that there really may be a God, and you thought that you were flirting with deism..? Perhaps I remember wrong.

I ask for your apologies & kind understanding in advance if I am mistaken. It would be a pity if I was attacked for misremembering.

@fmf said
Try to remember that you are not talking to a fellow Christian. I did not choose to lose my faith. You are offering me no "God" to reject. All you have to offer is some elaborate man-made dogma generated by an organization called the Orthodox Catholic Church.

But there is the Christian concept of a God; there is the triune God. Maybe it does not exist...

But you surely are familiar with the arguments as to why it does exist.

And you have rejected this God, saying it does not exist, right?

@fmf said
But I have. Numerous times. It may have been in those hundreds of posts where you chose not to use the Quote function so as not to have to respond directly to the content of my posts. I do not contend that "there can be no God", as you well know, because I have said that to you point-blank, and explained, countless times over the last 4 years. Asking me to type it out for you again is just a gimmick.

Sure, I understand...

Surely, you would also not be upset with me if I got some of what you believed wrong in the details then, yes?

I would expect the main poster of the forum to be very charitable to others - especially those who come and go, like myself. I cannot be expected to be aware of the nuances and details of your views, especially as time slips by and I am quite engaged in other places. ^^

@fmf said
I don't know. But you have, on several occasions, asserted that non-believers torture THEMSELVES in burning flames for eternity and that God has nothing to do with it. You are splitting hairs here about the ridiculousness of what you believe about eternal torture

How would someone not be responsible for their own actions and their own disposition toward God?

I think such circumstances can and do exist, maybe. I would not speculate too much about them.

But I think that someone who knows about Christ and consciously says "I am going to go against this - I do not accept Him as God, and I reject this whole relationship that I have had with the Church..." is making their own bed, quite consciously.

If you are going to take credit for looking past Christianity, dismissing it, talking about it as foolish, unbelievable, contradictory, etc., surely, you can accept the consequences of what it would mean that you've denied God?

I think if people are bold enough to be sure & certain God does not exist and thoroughly & actively reject him, as conscious and intelligent people... They are the authors of their own choice and the Captains of their soul, are they not?

@fmf said
I have no way of knowing if your pride is involved in your deployment of this strawman; you know full well that I don't contend that there is no God.

The atheist and agnostic positions tend to be unique to each individual.

I can't be bothered remembering the details of your version, FMF; I am not a full time poster here and I chat with other people quite like you all the time in other places and in real life.

If you are tight lipped about what you believe but want to always complain that people don't remember some posts you made in April of 2019, that's just your posting style... and we will both have to suffer through it.

@philokalia said
I ask for your apologies & kind understanding in advance if I am mistaken. It would be a pity if I was attacked for misremembering.

I'd describe myself as an agnostic atheist or implicit atheist. Ghost of a Duke would be an explicit atheist.