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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI am not convinced by your argument (if you have made one at all). Why is it mentally healthy to live in reality rather than self delusion?
I submit to you that what is truly "mentally healthy [and] realistic" is living in reality rather than self-delusion.
Also, you seem to be claiming that selfishness is inherently and obviously wrong, yet I don't see any reason why it should be. Obviously all those who seem to be trying to excuse it away and pretend it isn't selfish are deceiving themselves, but what is wrong with accepting that happiness is selfish?
Originally posted by twhiteheadI agree with yo TW, I believe you need to become self-centered and understand the person you have created by your choices before you can transcend that delusion, as ToO suggests.
I am not convinced by your argument (if you have made one at all). Why is it mentally healthy to live in reality rather than self delusion?
Also, you seem to be claiming that selfishness is inherently and obviously wrong, yet I don't see any reason why it should be. Obviously all those who seem to be trying to excuse it away and pretend it isn't selfish are deceiving themselves, but what is wrong with accepting that happiness is selfish?
In short, the ignorant are happy but the ones that seek REAL TRUTH must deal with the greatest of fearful emotions and much more....mwahahahahahađ
Originally posted by twhiteheadI am not convinced by your argument (if you have made one at all). Why is it mentally healthy to live in reality rather than self delusion?
I am not convinced by your argument (if you have made one at all). Why is it mentally healthy to live in reality rather than self delusion?
Also, you seem to be claiming that selfishness is inherently and obviously wrong, yet I don't see any reason why it should be. Obviously all those who seem to be trying to excuse it away and pretend it isn't selfish are deceiving themselves, but what is wrong with accepting that happiness is selfish?
What might be more interesting is for you to make a case for being unable to distinguish between reality and delusion being mentally healthy.
Also, you seem to be claiming that selfishness is inherently and obviously wrong, yet I don't see any reason why it should be.
Are any of the myriad of transgressions of man against man not borne of selfishness?
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneWhat do you mean by mentally healthy? I don't see theism affecting life expectancy in a negative way. I don't see it causing any physical problems. What sort of 'health' are we talking about?
What might be more interesting is for you to make a case for being unable to distinguish between reality and delusion being mentally healthy.
Sure it seems to affect the individuals ability to reason to some extent, but is that accurately described as 'unhealthy'?
Are any of the myriad of transgressions of man against man not borne of selfishness?
Quite likely. But that does not make selfishness inherently wrong. In fact I would be hard pressed to explain why transgressions of man against man were inherently wrong - I would probably end up using an argument from selfishness.
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Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]What do you mean by mentally healthy? I don't see theism affecting life expectancy in a negative way. I don't see it causing any physical problems. What sort of 'health' are we talking about?
What do you mean by mentally healthy? I don't see theism affecting life expectancy in a negative way. I don't see it causing any physical problems. What sort of 'health' are we talking about?
Sure it seems to affect the individuals ability to reason to some extent, but is that accurately described as 'unhealthy'?
[b]Are any of the myriad of transgress ...[text shortened]... st man were inherently wrong - I would probably end up using an argument from selfishness.
Sure it seems to affect the individuals ability to reason to some extent, but is that accurately described as 'unhealthy'?
I'm more than a bit perplexed by this response. Are you really unaware of the concept of "mental health"?
The following definition seems reasonable enough:
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health:
Mental health is a term used to describe either a level of cognitive or emotional well-being or an absence of a mental disorder.
I'm also not sure why you've brought up "theism". Have you lost track of the context of this discussion?
Quite likely. But that does not make selfishness inherently wrong. In fact I would be hard pressed to explain why transgressions of man against man were inherently wrong - I would probably end up using an argument from selfishness.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. First of all, I didn't claim that selfishness is inherently wrong, though the case can probably be made. The point was that most, if not all, transgressions are borne of selfishness. I can't think of any that aren't: murder, rape, pedophilia, etc. all seem to fit. Are you saying that you would be hard pressed to explain why the above are wrong?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI am aware of the concept, but I am trying to establish what you mean by it in this context. The typical medical usage of the word would not label all self deluded people mentally ill.
I'm more than a bit perplexed by this response. Are you really unaware of the concept of "mental health"?
The following definition seems reasonable enough:
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health:
Mental health is a term used to describe either a level of cognitive or emotional well-being or an absence of a mental disorder.
So would you take happiness to be "emotional well-being"? If so, that seems to go against your argument.
I'm also not sure why you've brought up "theism". Have you lost track of the context of this discussion?
Not at all. We are discussing self delusion for the sake of happiness, and the 'God' delusion is the best known and most popular such delusion.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. First of all, I didn't claim that selfishness is inherently wrong, though the case can probably be made.
You very strongly implied it. If anything your early posts depended on it.
The point was that most, if not all, transgressions are borne of selfishness.
I cant find mention of that point in any of your previous posts.
I can't think of any that aren't: murder, rape, pedophilia, etc. all seem to fit. Are you saying that you would be hard pressed to explain why the above are wrong?
But almost all our actions are selfish. It is illogical to conclude that because some selfish actions are wrong, then all selfish actions are wrong.
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Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]So would you take happiness to be "emotional well-being"? If so, that seems to go against your argument.
I am aware of the concept, but I am trying to establish what you mean by it in this context. The typical medical usage of the word would not label all self deluded people mentally ill.
[b]The following definition seems reasonable enough:
[quote]
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health:
Mental health is a term used to describe either a lev de that because some selfish actions are wrong, then all selfish actions are wrong.
Not really. You're focusing on one component of mental health to the exclusion of others. Consider delusion within the context of "cognitive well-being" and an "absence of a mental disorder".
Not at all. We are discussing self delusion for the sake of happiness, and the 'God' delusion is the best known and most popular such delusion.
Regardless, they are not one in the same. Your switch in context was illogical.
You very strongly implied it. If anything your early posts depended on it.
There's a distinction to be made between something being "inherently wrong" and "wrongs" being borne of something.
I cant find mention of that point in any of your previous posts.
It was the point of the following question:
"Are any of the myriad of transgressions of man against man not borne of selfishness?"
But almost all our actions are selfish. It is illogical to conclude that because some selfish actions are wrong, then all selfish actions are wrong.
Read my post again. No such conclusion was asserted.