Matthew 28:16-20
28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
28:20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
seems pretty clear cut to me....
Originally posted by DowardDo you believe everything you read?
Matthew 28:16-20
28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in th ...[text shortened]... remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
seems pretty clear cut to me....
Originally posted by DowardCan you find me any place in all of Acts or indeed the new testament where the disciples used this formula? There aren't any.
Matthew 28:16-20
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the [b]name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[/b]
Every time the disciples baptised into the name (not names) of Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, the "one name given amongst men by which we may be saved."
Originally posted by DowardClear cut?
Matthew 28:16-20
28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in th ...[text shortened]... remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
seems pretty clear cut to me....
The "Father" is under scrutiny in another thread.
The "Son" is only that for christians .
And who knows what "The Holy Spirit " REALLY is? What do you think?
It appears that the God of the bible has a triune nature although the early church fathers split on this issue as we know already. In the old testement it seems at least that God has a plural nature. There are examples of this in Genesis and Isaiah. Yet this seem in contrast to what God said in the 10 commandments to the Israelites. Hear Israel the Lord your God is one. The JW's believe Jesus is a created being and the spirit is just a force. I believe that every analogy that man can conjure up about the nature of God will break down just on human communcation alone. I don't think it's so much a mystery (our JW's friends get so hung up on this word mystery)as just the finite trying to comprehend the infinite. We can aprehend but the idea of the trinity but our little brains have trouble with it because it's the very nature of God.
Manny
Originally posted by DowardWho gave Jesus this authority?
Matthew 28:16-20
28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in th ...[text shortened]... remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
seems pretty clear cut to me....
Originally posted by galveston75No comment yet? Just the question here is the obvious one which is if Jesus is God and if all three of these beings of the Trinity are all equal and all knowing and all powerful as the trinity explains, then why wouldn't Jesus already have all the authority that the other two parts have? Did he not have it before this was given to him?
Who gave Jesus this authority?
And for one part to have the authority as I guess the other one or two parts already had that would make those other parts have more power or strength or importance then the one part that needs to have that given to it by the other parts.
Do you see the problem with this reasoning that the trinity trys to inject here?
How could Jesus be given something that according to the trinity he would already have if he was truly God himself? Is God truly lacking something within himself or some part of himself or does he just move these abilities around from one part of himself to another part?
Why does the bible not say the Holy Spirit is given this same authority as Jesus is given?
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Originally posted by DowardOkay, but where in the passage does it say that they are all one entity?
Matthew 28:16-20
28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in th ...[text shortened]... remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
seems pretty clear cut to me....