1. The moral highground
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    15 Apr '06 19:38
    Does this verse suggest tha athesists who are good could get into heaven and/or are in a way christains?
  2. Felicific Forest
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    15 Apr '06 21:11
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Does this verse suggest tha athesists who are good could get into heaven and/or are in a way christains?
    No.
  3. Donationkirksey957
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    15 Apr '06 22:07
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Does this verse suggest tha athesists who are good could get into heaven and/or are in a way christains?
    Could be.
  4. The moral highground
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    15 Apr '06 22:35
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    No.
    Why?
  5. Joined
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    15 Apr '06 23:40
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Does this verse suggest tha athesists who are good could get into heaven and/or are in a way christains?
    In Isaiah 64:6 it says that our righteousness is as filthy as rags in comparison to God's righteousness. Trying to get into heaven on your own righteousness is kinda like being on trial for murder. As a defense you can get up and tell the court what a good person you are and all the wonderfull things you have done for people over the years. Then the judge will look at you and say, "Yes, thats nice, but that is not why you are on trial here." "You are guilty and by law you must get the death penalty." Scripture says that if you only sin once then you are a sinner. That is the crime that you must account for. How then can you be saved? What do you think? What are you going to tell your creator at the day of judgement?
  6. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    16 Apr '06 00:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    In Isaiah 64:6 it says that our righteousness is as filthy as rags in comparison to God's righteousness. Trying to get into heaven on your own righteousness is kinda like being on trial for murder. As a defense you can get up and tell the court what a good person you are and all the wonderfull things you have done for people over the years. Then the judge ...[text shortened]... aved? What do you think? What are you going to tell your creator at the day of judgement?
    That isn't what Christ said in Matthew 25.

    Besides if God is that fickle, screw him.
  7. The moral highground
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    16 Apr '06 02:142 edits
    'What are you going to tell your creator at the day of judgement?"

    That if he wanted me to believe in him he should of made me stupid.

    A bit like Pol Pot and Mao Zedung, not wanting intellegent people in there kingdom.
  8. Joined
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    16 Apr '06 04:35
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    'What are you going to tell your creator at the day of judgement?"

    That if he wanted me to believe in him he should of made me stupid.

    A bit like Pol Pot and Mao Zedung, not wanting intellegent people in there kingdom.
    My whole point was that the only way we can beat the wrap we are guilty of is to have representation. That representation is Christ himself. He is our lawyer. In fact, he will even take the wrap for us. It says that he became sin for us on the cross. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that does not teach that good works save you. All other religions have what I call are scales. On one side are your good works and on the other side your sins. You just hope your good deeds outwiegh your bad deeds. With Christianity we are said to be saved by grace. This means that we do not earn salvation. It is a gift. All we have to do is place our faith in him and give him permission to be our representation. Scripture says that we are not saved by our goodness least any man should boast. Imagine the prideful self righteous boasting that would insue if this were not the case.
  9. Forgotten
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    16 Apr '06 04:53
    No.it simply means that God has one helluva big house.
  10. Joined
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    16 Apr '06 05:18
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    That isn't what Christ said in Matthew 25.

    Besides if God is that fickle, screw him.
    It is not a matter of being fickle. I do understand where you are coming from, however. After all, we are all sinners and we are all in the same boat. Before I became a christian I had similair feelings about christianity for what I felt was an exclusionary religion that had unreasonable expectations for a sinner like me who wanted to be saved. However, once I became a christian my perspective has changed about matters such as this. Perspective is a wonderous thing. Perhaps you are only able to see the other side once you have experienced it, I don't know. I will ,however, try to show you the other side. It is kinda like my example of the man on trial for murder. From his perspective, he does not deserve judgement. For the sinner, sin is no big thing. This is because we are used to sinning. I suppose for most people, murder is the worst crime imaginable. THis is probably because this is one sin you are not accustomed to commiting. However, if you were a serial killer, a murder would not be such a big crime if you were used to doing it. Again is has to do with perspective. From God's perspective, he is holy and has never sinned. Therefore, all sins are a big deal and repugnant and must be accounted for. Now getting back to my example of the man on trial. From his families perspective the judge should be lenient on him becasue they love him and have fond memories of him. On the other side you have the family member of the victim that was murdered. They are in grief and want justice. They are angry and feel as though the man should loose his life because they took the life of their loved one. Then you have the judge. The judge is there to administer justice. What is he to do? God is the judge and loves both parties and sees the perspective of both parties. On the one hand, he must deal out justice fairly and feels compelled to sentence you or he will be an unjust judge and would not be doing his job. On the other hand, he wishes that he could spare you and somehow right the wrong that was done. He has provided a way for you to right the wrong, however, he cannot force you to take that provision. This is as best as I can explain it.

    As far as Matthew 25, what are you refering to? I do not have a Bible with me.
  11. Felicific Forest
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    16 Apr '06 09:52
    Originally posted by Brother Edwin
    Why?
    Could you please post a link to the verses you are referring to ?
  12. The moral highground
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    16 Apr '06 11:02
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Could you please post a link to the verses you are referring to ?
    You will find the verse here:
    http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=41675
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    16 Apr '06 14:271 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    My whole point was that the only way we can beat the wrap we are guilty of is to have representation. That representation is Christ himself. He is our lawyer. In fact, he will even take the wrap for us. It says that he became sin for us on the cross. Christianity is the only religion that I know of that does not teach that good works save you. All other ...[text shortened]... boast. Imagine the prideful self righteous boasting that would insue if this were not the case.
    The analogy doesn't work at all.

    What we stand accused of, I assume, is sinning; so why shouldn't being a good person be a good defence?

    What exactly am I "on trial" for?
  14. The moral highground
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    16 Apr '06 15:36
    Apparantly we are all sinners because that made up couple ate an apple.
  15. Subscriberwidget
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    16 Apr '06 15:393 edits
    Originally posted by dottewell
    The analogy doesn't work at all.

    What we stand accused of, I assume, is sinning; so why shouldn't being a good person be a good defence?

    What exactly am I "on trial" for?
    Like Kafka, Dotty 🙄 You're here, aren't you? 😀 Then you get to take the 'wrap' for sinning.

    Just being here, apparently, is a sin 😛 Of course, every Easter Jesus Bunny leaves Chocolate eggs.

    (When you're finished scarfing the chocolate, check the wrap 😵 It may contain a coded message...)
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