The Invisible Presence of Jesus

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I know that this is for sonship, but I'm curious. Are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
I do not agree totally with anyone on this forum as I'm sure you don't agree with all of what I post. But this one thing I have learned. Eat the fish and spit out the bones.
I don't have to agree with everything someone believes, but I can learn ...[text shortened]... ust sit back and listen, and ask God to teach me something from what this person says or writes.

Do you know what it is sonship believes and propagates about Jesus and his alleged role in the eternal burning of billions of people? Are you are that sonship takes refuge in this knowledge when trying to forgive those who mistreat him?

The gospel is not a message of fear and the most viscous apocalyptic revenge, it is one of love and hope and charity.

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you follow you own example by reading and looking for what you can learn from the Jehovah's Witnesses, dasa, RJHinds, and in fact any of the other self anointed techers here?

The reason I don't "eat the fish a spit out the bones" with sonship's epic monologues, is that the bones are massive and spoil the dish so I don't touch it. I never question anyone's Christianity I only question the message.

Bump for checkbaiter. Sorry my reply ended up in two posts.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I know that this is for sonship, but I'm curious. Are you willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

The demented and depraved "logic" and "morality" of the Orwellian torturer God theology and the supposed "perfect justice" of His "revenge and wrath" for a lack of belief - as depicted by Christians like sonship - is an ideological monstrosity that goes way beyond any hope of redemption through anodyne cliches about babies and bathwater.

sonship is utterly unconvincing to me on ANY moral subject now that he has revealed the basis for his notion of the ultimate example of "morality" as purportedly manifested in the hideous "God" figure he depicts.

Great. Now that the unbelievers have registered their complaints, perhaps the topic can now go on.

Please, sonship, continue.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Great. Now that the unbelievers have registered their complaints, perhaps the topic can now go on.

Please, sonship, continue.

You of all people complaining about people complaining is bizarre in the extreme. You're the biggest saggy winge bag I've ever come across on my internet travels.

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you know what it is sonship believes and propagates about Jesus and his alleged role in the eternal burning of billions of people? Are you are that sonship takes refuge in this knowledge when trying to forgive those who mistreat him?

The gospel is not a message of fear and the most viscous apocalyptic revenge, it is one of love and hope and charity.

Yes, I understand this belief of his, but I stand by what I said. I don't totally agree with any of the politicians but I will vote for one of them.
So what if he believes in eternal torment, so do many great bible teachers I follow. I disagree on this one point but there is too much to learn, to throw away the baby with the bath water.
I don't dwell on hate or negative themes. As I said I know God works with all kinds of people, and I see God working in Sonship.

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you follow you own example by reading and looking for what you can learn from the Jehovah's Witnesses, dasa, RJHinds, and in fact any of the other self anointed techers here?

The reason I don't "eat the fish a spit out the bones" with sonship's epic monologues, is that the bones are massive and spoil the dish so I don't touch it. I never question anyone's Christianity I only question the message.

Do you follow you own example by reading and looking for what you can learn from the Jehovah's Witnesses, dasa, RJHinds, and in fact any of the other self anointed techers here?
Yes, sometimes there is nothing, but the spirit of God can teach me even through unbelievers.

Originally posted by FMF
The demented and depraved "logic" and "morality" of the Orwellian torturer God theology and the supposed "perfect justice" of His "revenge and wrath" for a lack of belief - as depicted by Christians like sonship - is an ideological monstrosity that goes way beyond any hope of redemption through anodyne cliches about babies and bathwater.

sonship is utterly u ...[text shortened]... ultimate example of "morality" as purportedly manifested in the hideous "God" figure he depicts.

Yes, but as a self proclaimed unbeliever, this holds true for anyone who attempts to teach you the bible.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Yes, but as a self proclaimed unbeliever, this holds true for anyone who attempts to teach you the bible.

I am a participant in these discussions on spirituality and I give feedback to proselytizers about the ideologies they propagate and who the claims they make about the reality in which I live.

Great. Now that the unbelievers have registered their complaints, perhaps the topic can now go on.

Please, sonship, continue.

LOL.

Okay, what I am getting at is how Jesus treated His disciples during that 40 days before His ascension. Understanding it is important to seeing also the characteristics of how Jesus will physically return.

How He left physically is important to appreciate how He will return physically. Here's two verses to confirm this. Here is what Acts says about that relationship.

" And when He had said these things, while they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took Him away from their sight. " (Acts 1:9) [/b]

Remember. It says "a cloud took Him away from their SIGHT".
But He had also told them that He would be with them until the consummation of the age (Matt. 29:20) [/quote]

Now we Christians often do not live like Christ is ever present, only unseen. But that doesn't change the fact that because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, He is with us.
The problem is in the Christians' under appreciation of His invisible presence.

Then the two accompanying men had something to say -

"And while they were looking intently into heaven as He went, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them, who also said,

Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven ? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you beheld Him going into heaven." (v.11)

Remember, that for 40 days after His resurrection, He taught them things concerning the kingdom of God. This included His invisible presence and their need to live and walk by faith ever mindful that He was still with them. He trained the early apostles and disciples.

" To whom also He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many irrefutable proofs, appearing to them through a period of forty days and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:3)

During this forty day period, in which Jesus appeared and disappeared among His disciples, they didn't quite know what to do. Peter felt in a limbo as far as how he should make a living. Peter decided to go back to what he knew best - professional fishing.

My next few posts, hopeful, will examine the same theme of Christ's invisible presence taught after His resurrection. The evangelists John adds a whole additional "chapter" after His virtual conclusion to tell us about this.

Notice that the Gospel of John really has a conclusion and a epilogue.

CONCLUSION:

" Moreover indeed many other signs also Jesus did before His disciples, which are not written in this book. But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you may have life in His name."

That is the concluding verses 30 and 31 of chapter 20.

Now THE BEGINNING OF THE EPILOGUE, chapter 21

"After these things Jesus manifested Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberius. And He manifested Himself in this way:

Simon Peter and Thomas, called Didymus, and Nathanael from Cana of Galilee and the sons of Zebedee and two others of His disciples were there together.

Simon Peter said to them, I am going fishing. They said to him, We also are coming with you.

They went forth and got into the boat, and that night they caught nothing." (21:1-3)

The virtual leader Simon Peter, said he was going fishing. That is to meet a practical need. This ambiguous limbo period was getting him perhaps a bit nervous about how to go on making a living.

He backslid. And the other disciples with him backslid with him. We'll see how Jesus manifests Himself to these men concerned about their practical daily living.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Great. Now that the unbelievers have registered their complaints, perhaps the topic can now go on.

Please, sonship, continue.

Have you got the courage to say that to me directly?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Yes, I understand this belief of his, but I stand by what I said. I don't totally agree with any of the politicians but I will vote for one of them.
So what if he believes in eternal torment, so do many great bible teachers I follow. I disagree on this one point but there is too much to learn, to throw away the baby with the bath water.
I don't dwell ...[text shortened]... e themes. As I said I know God works with all kinds of people, and I see God working in Sonship.

Then feel free to enjoy his posts and leave me to call him out over his gross error and fruitloopery

So Peter doesn't quite know how to handle this new stage of his relationship with the resurrected Jesus. This portion of the Gospel of John is so realistic to me.

Jesus appears. Jesus disappears.
Jesus is physically seen by them, to their great joy.
And Jesus hides Himself from their sight. It does not say that He went away. It says He vanished from their sight.

In this time the leader Peter gets unsettled about how in the world he is suppose to live. John says he ups and decides to go back to fishing. Since they all kind of look to Peter as a leader among them, those with him go along with him - back to fishing.

This is you and I. This is our neighbors. This is so realistic. "How are we suppose to live now? I mean Jesus took us on a wild ride. He even rose from the dead. Now what? We still have to make a living."

How incomplete the Gospel of John would be without this 21rst chapter. Muse on this a bit.

"Simon Peter said to them, I am going fishing. They said to him, We also are coming with you. " (John 21:3a)

But miraculously these professional fishermen caught not one fish for the whole night. And night was the time of good fishing. God kept all the fish away from the boat. God made it so that in their anxiety, they did not catch a single fish.

"They went forth and got into the boat, and that night they caught nothing." (v. 3b)

Now we have to see how Jesus repeats the miracle He performed when He first called Peter. He causes them to catch a huge number of fish. And someone knew the count - about 153 fish (v.11).

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]Do you follow you own example by reading and looking for what you can learn from the Jehovah's Witnesses, dasa, RJHinds, and in fact any of the other self anointed techers here?
Yes, sometimes there is nothing, but the spirit of God can teach me even through unbelievers.[/b]

What a wonderfully receptive vessel of karmic peace you are.