Originally posted by RJHinds Yahshua (Jesus) said the following:
[b]Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(Matthew 5:48 NASB)
And the Apostle Paul said this:
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
(Philippi ...[text shortened]... and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. [/b]
(Hebrews 11:1-6 NASB)
The Instructor[/b]
Is there anything Christ said about how one should get eternal life that you accept? Or what about the book of James. Is that book missing from your Bible? Or the Apostle John's long explanations of the importance of love, charity and good works ?
Faith and Good Works go hand in hand.
Faith is the starting point of the follower of Christ.
Good works is the demonstration of that faith.
Without good works you are dead.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Is there anything Christ said about how one should get eternal life that you accept? Or what about the book of James. Is that book missing from your Bible? Or the Apostle John's long explanations of the importance of love, charity and good works ?
Faith and Good Works go hand in hand.
Faith is the starting point of the follower of Christ.
Good works is the demonstration of that faith.
Without good works you are dead.
Yes, that is all in my Holy Bible. However, I was informing you of the verses I know of that said something about pleasing God and being perfect.
As you said, good works alone does not please God. He also wants us to believe in Him and have faith in Him and His word. We are saved by His grace alone, for there is no good work that we can do to merit salvation after we have sinned against Him.
Originally posted by RJHinds Yes, that is all in my Holy Bible. However, I was informing you of the verses I know of that said something about pleasing God and being perfect.
As you said, good works alone does not please God. He also wants us to believe in Him and have faith in Him and His word. We are saved by His grace alone, for there is no good work that we can do to merit salvation after we have sinned against Him.
The Instructor
Your quote about being perfect was not applicable. The question is does someone needs to be perfect to be accounted worthy to enter into the kingdom of God? IF your answer to that is YES then there is just a handful of patriarchs who were called perfect. The rest of humanity will be excluded. Clearly God does not require perfection. God requires the faithful to follow the commandments of his son Jesus to the best of their ability. God does not require the faithful to throw up their hands in arrogance and claim that they are saved and don't need good works.
Constantly repeating that we are saved by grace is also meaningless in this context. YES we are saved by grace and all our righteousness and good works are filthy rags ... BUT .. our righteousness and works are still required of us, however filthy and however small .. it is what Christ said he will judge everyone by. Do you need quotes for what Christ said?
Clearly you believe more in Paul than in Christ so read Hebrews 12 .. this is a chapter about continuing on in good works until the end .. failure to do that, and falling by the wayside leads to damnation.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Your quote about being perfect was not applicable. The question is does someone needs to be perfect to be accounted worthy to enter into the kingdom of God? IF your answer to that is YES then there is just a handful of patriarchs who were called perfect. The rest of humanity will be excluded. Clearly God does not require perfection. God requires the faithful ...[text shortened]... good works until the end .. failure to do that, and falling by the wayside leads to damnation.
I am not saying we should not be doing good works. However, we should do good works for the right reason. We should do our good works out of love and not out of a feeling of obligation only. If you do not feel any joy and love in doing the good works, then those good works are definitely like filty rags.
Originally posted by RJHinds I am not saying we should not be doing good works. However, we should do good works for the right reason. We should do our good works out of love and not out of a feeling of obligation only. If you do not feel any joy and love in doing the good works, then those good works are definitely like filty rags.
The Instructor
Nows that's the core of the problem here.
You think that you can judge peoples reason. Let Christ do that pal.
Christians have a DUTY TO CONTINUE ON IN GOOD WORKS..
Christ will judge their reason .. not you or anyone else.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Nows that's the core of the problem here.
You think that you can judge peoples reason. Let Christ do that pal.
Christians have a DUTY TO CONTINUE ON IN GOOD WORKS..
Christ will judge their reason .. not you or anyone else.
Okay, then you stop judging those that want to live by faith and rely on the grace of God for their salvation as not being Christians, because they are not continually doing good works.
Originally posted by RJHinds Okay, then you stop judging those that want to live by faith and rely on the grace of God for their salvation as not being Christians, because they are not continually doing good works.
The Instructor
Do you know who live by faith?
THE JUST.
When you find out what is the meaning of 'Just', then you will know that FAITH AND WORKS are so inextricably tied up together that it cannot be separated. Its the same thing. Faith in Christ = Love and Charity. Hence the book of James. Maybe Paul focusses on faith and the other Apostles on works. But Christ spoke of BOTH. Clearly both are necessary.
Modern Christianity has separated it so that their following and bank accounts would get bigger. Modern Christianity is corrupt and if you cannot see that and if you want me to stop saying it then you will be disappointed.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Do you know who live by faith?
THE JUST.
When you find out what is the meaning of 'Just', then you will know that FAITH AND WORKS are so inextricably tied up together that it cannot be separated. Its the same thing. Faith in Christ = Love and Charity. Hence the book of James. Maybe Paul focusses on faith and the other Apostles on works. But Christ sp ...[text shortened]... and if you cannot see that and if you want me to stop saying it then you will be disappointed.
Maybe one day I will find out what is the meaning of 'Just' and be a real christian, like you.
Originally posted by RJHinds Maybe one day I will find out what is the meaning of 'Just' and be a real christian, like you.
The Instructor
No need for 'one day'. Start today. Follow what Christ said and do good works and then you will be a Christian like Christ. You don't know what or who I am or what I do.
Originally posted by Rajk999 No need for 'one day'. Start today. Follow what Christ said and do good works and then you will be a Christian like Christ. You don't know what or who I am or what I do.
You apparently did not get my inappropriate attempt at sarcasm. Maybe that is a good thing for I have no desire to know what or who you are or what you do.
Originally posted by RJHinds You apparently did not get my inappropriate attempt at sarcasm. Maybe that is a good thing for I have no desire to know what or who you are or what you do.
The Instructor
I'm disappointed .. Been trying so hard to make friends
The Kingdom of God.
30 Jun '13 10:25
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