1. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
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    19 Sep '10 00:47
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. But it has a negative connotation now, with elements of fear-inducing, guilt-inducing, and basic propaganda processes, that avoid and often discourage open and free reasoning and pursuing of other aspects not directly related to the indoctrinated religion, pseudo-science etc. This is the meaning taken in this post.

    The difficulty is that if we are"indoctrinated" it is very hard for us to recognise it. The quest for freedom of belief seriously involves respect for other people's beliefs. But it also means the freedom of a person to think and reason those beliefs without coercion. Recognising the marks in themselves may lead someone to a freer life. This would probably be very helpful for them.
    To keep it simple, may I suggest some marks or indicators when indoctrination is around. You might like to question them or add to them.

    1. Fear-inducing beliefs. "If you look outside these beliefs, you will go to hell!" or something like that. Or get shot!

    2. Guilt-inducing beliefs . "If you question or search elsewhere (psychology, philosophy, other religions) for truth, you are betraying GOD, and you are a terrible sinner!" Or some such.

    3. Source Restriction. "There is only one and only one authority and it is in this book! This is the word of GOD, and if you question or want to reason about it, you are questioning the very literal "WORD OF GOD"!" (Book may be any one of a number of sacred or spiritual sources, which in themselves may have much of value and guidance, but in indoctrinating systems they are directly connected to "the tongue" of the Supreme Source of the Universe. No questioning allowed.)

    4. Excessive leader/priest/mullah/caste/ authority. They are the ONLY ONES that say what is right or wrong. Any questioning of them, very not good. Nasty consequences... see under "fear/guilt etc."

    (As for me, I am a sort of tao/zen/dzogchen mutation. I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    19 Sep '10 07:36
    5. A swastika on the forehead. (Unless this is an unwanted tattoo, this is a sure sign of indoctrination)
  3. Joined
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    19 Sep '10 13:32
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    Hmm. It sounds as though you are trying to indoctrinate me. 😵

    I think you will find that we have all been indoctrinated and we all have belief systems. Belief systems are a vital component to our existence and sanity. After all, mere facts or data are meaningless by themselves. It is only when we interpret these facts to give them meaning that belief systems develop.

    Having said that, it sounds as though you percieve those who have certain belief systems have very little reason to believe the way they do. You belittle them by poking fun at a religious text that you seem to find silly and inconsequential. As a result, mahy have percived those of faith not only to be of weak mind, but incapable of critical thinking. It may amuse you but I think you will quickly find that such arrogance is nonproductive.
  4. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
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    19 Sep '10 14:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    Hmm. It sounds as though you are trying to indoctrinate me. 😵

    I think you will find that we have all been indoctrinated and we all have belief systems. Belief systems are a vital component to our existence and sanity. After all, mere facts or data are meaningless by themselves. It is only when we interpret these facts to give them meaning that belief ...[text shortened]... nking. It may amuse you but I think you will quickly find that such arrogance is nonproductive.
    We've all been indoctrinated!?

    How do you work that one out whodey?
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    USA
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    19 Sep '10 14:49
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    You don't need hell to feel like you have to be part of the herd either through the
    force of the herd, or peer pressure. I think being "indoctrinated" could be looked
    at by anyone who is being told they must conform to the beliefs of others, being
    forced to accept or reject X whatever X is.
    Kelly
  6. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    19 Sep '10 19:58
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    cheers friend.....its refreshing to have you here in this forum, because you seem to have a clear understanding of reality, keep posting.

    vishva
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    19 Sep '10 23:34
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    There comes a day when all this will be stood on its head, and it will be the Christians who are persecuted, yea, even unto death. In that day, the only Mark of any importance will be the Mark of the Beast, perhaps a microchip implanted in your hand. Just think long and hard before taking this Mark. Doing so seals your fate, whether through ignorance or coercion.

    If you think you're talking about signs of Indoctrination, you haven't seen nothing yet. Only this time, I suspect, you will be on the side of those doing the indoctrinating. In fact, you already may be, if you call it "freedom".
  8. Joined
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    20 Sep '10 01:43
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    We've all been indoctrinated!?

    How do you work that one out whodey?
    We only know what we are told or what we experience. So when interpreting the data around you, you must form belief systems to make sense of it all. Either that or rely on others to "explain" it to you who have formed belief systems of their own.
  9. Joined
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    20 Sep '10 02:052 edits
    The Titanic is sinking. Some concerned people go about warning people that eventually if they do not get rescued they will drown in the icy cold waters of the Atlantic.

    Some appreciate the warning and take heed.

    Others see a clear sign of indoctrination and reply "I particularly resent your threatening me with drowning simply because I do not agree with your beliefs."

    This is how some people react to the message that Jesus saves.
  10. Joined
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    20 Sep '10 02:084 edits
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The Titanic is sinking. Some concerned people go about warning people that eventually if they do not get rescued they will drawn in the icy cold waters of the Atlantic.

    Some appreciate the warning and take heed.

    Others see a clear sign of indoctrination and reply [b]"I particularly resent your threatening me with drowning simply because I do not agree with your beliefs."


    This is how some people react to the message that Jesus saves.[/b]
    I like the example of Christ on the cross hanging between the two thieves. Both theives are suffering to various degrees and will die. Nothing can change that fact for whatever reason. One curses at Christ and says, "If you be the Son of God get me the $### down!! Unfortunately for him, Christ does no such thing and the theif later perishes. The other theif asks Christ to remember him in paradise and was saved. I say all of humanity is represented by those two theives. Both thieves seemingly have the same data and the same fate as both are guilty, however, one responds differently to Christ than the other. Why?
  11. Territories Unknown
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    20 Sep '10 02:26
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    The difficulty is that if we are "stoned" it is very hard for us to recognize it.
  12. Joined
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    20 Sep '10 02:39
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    The difficulty is that if we are "stoned" it is very hard for us to recognize it.
    Far out!!
  13. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    20 Sep '10 06:07
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings to everybody. This is my first post on the forums. The vigorous discussions are much appreciated.

    I am forming some thoughts about the nature or marks of being "indoctrinated", as prompted by some of the previous posts.

    Indoctrination in its formal meaning is a form of teaching of doctrines or principles, usually in the context of a religion. ...[text shortened]... I used to be indoctrinated. Freedom is a wonderful thing.)

    Cheers, friends.
    In the cherry exists a cherry tree with all its cherries and all the cherry trees within them, thus everything is neither real, nor not real, nor both real and no real, nor neither;

    All the gospels and all the sutras of all the religions together cannot hold a candle to the one who has a clear mind. But how can you get a clear mind when you have to keep on running here and there? What’s the use of everything you ‘re looking for in your everyday life? And who is the “enlightened one” that is supposed that he has to be followed by the “believers”? And what is the nature of the preachers of the various so called "holy" gospels?

    The ones who understand their nature are not obliged to follow nobody;
    May All Beings Be Happy😵
  14. Pale Blue Dot
    Joined
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    20 Sep '10 08:22
    Originally posted by black beetle
    In the cherry exists a cherry tree with all its cherries and all the cherry trees within them, thus everything is neither real, nor not real, nor both real and no real, nor neither;

    All the gospels and all the sutras of all the religions together cannot hold a candle to the one who has a clear mind. But how can you get a clear mind when you have to k ...[text shortened]... ones who understand their nature are not obliged to follow nobody;
    May All Beings Be Happy😵
    In the cherry exists a cherry tree with all its cherries and all the cherry trees within them, thus everything is neither real, nor not real, nor both real and no real, nor neither


    What a beautiful image! Good one, bb.
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
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    20 Sep '10 09:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    We only know what we are told or what we experience. So when interpreting the data around you, you must form belief systems to make sense of it all. Either that or rely on others to "explain" it to you who have formed belief systems of their own.
    I don't think you quite understand what indoctrination means.
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