The Most Important Writing to Understand

Originally posted by divegeester

You are just pouting because you don't like having your horrible beliefs challenged.

That fails. I have taken challenges ever since i have been on the Forum.

And I think interpretations often should be examined very carefully.
That's why I talk about the Bible a lot here.

I believe that God shows on no uncertain terms that He will not be rebelled against forever without His letting the rebel know how God reacts to his revolt.

He has to do this in terms in which all the world's people can grasp and understand. And if a lake of fire serves that word picture to convey that, that is His method to do so,

I further think that it is God's responsibility to inform us - we will not win in sinning forever. We must, MUST be reconciled to God.

That is not hard to understand. WE MUST BE RECONCILED TO GOD.

Some will accuse that of God's bullying or God's taking advantage of His greater power. I do not see it that way at all. Mainly, I do not see it that way because of the testimony of the Savior Jesus Christ - God incarnate as a man.

What God did in Christ testifies forever, He so loved us.
Anyway - not being justified by God is not a cosmic option. And though some will take it, it cannot be a good outcome for them. After all is said and done in the ages before the eternal, the un-reconciled accompany the devil to that place which was prepared for him and his angels. It was never made for man.

If man will not be saved he will join his leader Satan in his miserable destiny.
The language of divine communication makes certain that we understand it is terrible.

I'm a Christian, I don't believe this stuff you believe, I'm not going to go to hell for it, everyone thinks it is awful...except you for some reason.

You never bother to really see if the lake of fire that you don't believe in is the lake of fire that I believe in.

Look at this sentence above. I have never said that salvation was predicated on believing in the lake of fire. If that is what you mean.

And I do think it is awful. That is why I tell readers among other things -

" And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)

God knows and many posters here know that that is not the only thing I tell them is in the Bible. But it too is there. And its awful in my opinion. Christ's salvation is wonderful.

Originally posted by sonship

Stupid typo.

I meant to write:

But they didn't succeed in causing me to believe the NT intends [not] to communicate that it will be very bad for those who reject Christ.

There are a lot of things in the New Testament. Among these many things is a clear communication that it will not be good for those who reject Christ.

Originally posted by sonship

I don't deny that the scriptures exist.

That is good. Do you deny that they have no business in the New Testament cannon ?

Well, let me go through the NT and pick out all the stuff that I too personally wish wasn't there. Who likes everything they read in the Bible ?

[quote]
I claim that you interpret them incorrectly be ...[text shortened]... r of fact I expect Suzianne to be more sympathetic towards some form of annhilationism, frankly.

I meant:

That is good. Do you deny that they have [any] business in the New Testament cannon ?

Originally posted by sonship
that fails...

No not at all. You're the one making it personal and accusing me of "poisoning relationships between Christians" of "turning away" and of "poisoning the well".

You're just pouting.

Originally posted by divegeester
No not at all. You're the one making it personal and accusing me of "poisoning relationships between Christians" of "turning away" and of "poisoning the well".

You're just pouting.

"...

And they will turn away their ear from the truth and will turn aside to myths." (See 2 Tim. 4:3,4)

Call it pouting if you wish. You seem to want to pout and attack Christians who would grit their teeth and turn their ear TOWARD the truth when called to, rather than turn the ear away.

We may LIKE to turn the ear away. But our conscience doesn't allow us to imagine that God's word did not say certain things. It did.

And -

"All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ... " ( 2 Timothy 2:16)

Originally posted by sonship
Call it pouting if you wish. You seem to want to pout and attack Christians who would grit their teeth and turn their ear TOWARD the truth when called to, rather than turn the ear away. We may LIKE to turn the ear away. But our conscience doesn't allow us to imagine that God's word did not say certain things. It did.

Is disagreeing with you always "turning away" from God, in your view?

Originally posted by FMF
Is disagreeing with you [b]always "turning away" from God, in your view?[/b]

No. Disagreeing with me personally may sometimes actually turn a person in a more truthful direction.

Turning the ear away from the truth of the Bible's teaching is what is at issue.


"I don't want to hear about God's wrath in an ultimate judgment. i don't want to believe Jesus ever talked about that. And if you believe it you're are a sadistic barbarian. I don't like it and won't listen to that.

Now I have some other theories here that teach Jesus never said it OR
some of those passages mean just about the opposite of what they say."

That is turning the ear away from the truth and heaping up teachers to tickle your ears or cause you to follow myths.

Originally posted by sonship
No. Disagreeing with me personally may sometimes actually turn a person in a more truthful direction.

Turning the ear away from [b]the truth of the Bible's teaching is what is at issue.


[i] "I don't want to hear about God's wrath in an ultimate judgment. i don't want to believe Jesus ever talked about that. And if you believe it you're are ...[text shortened]... ar away from the truth and heaping up teachers to tickle your ears or cause you to follow myths.

Publicly disagreeing with you is not, as you state in this thread:

- poisoning the relationship between other Christians
- poisoning the well (of discussion)
- turning away from the truth
- following myths
- not wanting to hear about God's judgment
- turning the ear away from the truth

It's just...disagreeing with you, and your teachings based on your erroneous interpretation of various parts of the Bible.

In particular your belief that there is a place of eternal suffering. A place of the most unbelievably despicable horror. A place designed and sustained by your version of the God of John 3:16, where allegedly he will supernaturally keep alive billions of people who have rejected him and burn them with fire while he and his angels spectate the torturous carnage.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Err...But those who don't believe in him will be burnt alive by him for eternity. Sorry, it doesn't make much sense I know but please remember that this is perfect justice.

Originally posted by sonship
Turning the ear away from the truth of the Bible's teaching is what is at issue.

Is disagreeing with what you happen to claim is "the truth" of the Bible always "turning away" from God, in your view?

Originally posted by FMF
Is disagreeing with what you happen to claim is "the truth" of the Bible always "turning away" from God, in your view?

I would not think so. I am human and can make mistakes like all humans, save the Lord Jesus.

But I do believe that the last judgment, will be the LAST judgment, .... will be the LAST - JUDGMENT .

I don't think any particular post on this Forum by me or you or anyone else, will be the last judgment.

It's just...disagreeing with you, and your teachings based on your erroneous interpretation of various parts of the Bible.

In particular your belief that there is a place of eternal suffering. A place of the most unbelievably despicable horror. A place designed and sustained by your version of the God of John 3:16, where allegedly he will supernaturally keep alive billions of people who have rejected him and burn them with fire while he and his angels spectate the torturous carnage.
...

Err...But those who don't believe in him will be burnt alive by him for eternity. Sorry, it doesn't make much sense I know but please remember that this is perfect justice.

Let's deal with "burnt alive" ? You have gone through this before - "You mean God will keep ALIVE in order to burn? "

Let's examine that. Your working assumption is that since life is existence therefore death is non-existence.

On what basis do you prove that death equals non-existence in the Bible?

When in Revelation 20 John said he saw the DEAD standing before the great white throne to be judged, how could the non-existent be said to be standing there to be judged ?

" And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the DEAD were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works." (Rev. 20:12)

If death for you means non-existence how can this take place ?
Divegeester, I hope your next post to me will explain this.

Originally posted by sonship
When it comes to [b] reading comprehension, what is the world's most important writing that needs to be comprehended ?

Whose writing do you think is the most crucial that something of it, if not all of it, is crucial to be grasped through reading comprehension?


Serious replies ?
Wisecracks, lampoons, smart aleck answers and comedian jokes not needed.

Any thoughtful and serious consideration is welcomed.[/b]

The bible of course, but God usually has to reveal much of it through revelation or opening up our minds.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The bible of course, but God usually has to reveal much of it through revelation or opening up our minds.

I have tried to also show that behind the book is the living God guiding with illumination and enlightening.

Divegeester, i hope, is going to explain how he can prove that physical death has to mean non-existence in the Bible.

Rather than him rush into the emotional appeal of the accusation that God keeps victims alive for torture, i think we first need to settle why he thinks death means non-existence.