The Neck of the Giraffe

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I disbelieve 'creation is itself evidence for a creator' AS WELL as refuting it.

It is also worth pointing out that the term 'theory' is often misunderstood in scientific usage. (Predominantly by theists). There's a great Stephen Fry explanation of this if I can find it.

All you can do is disbelieve, since there is no evidence to the contrary, which was the point I made.

Of course, when it is convenient, terms can be said to have different meanings. A theory is merely a supposition or speculation. The theory of evolution falls apart because it is unsupported by any hard evidence, and must therefore be believed in by faith, and the disbelief of known facts.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
What specifically in the whole universe defies chance and evidences a creator?

Creation is speaking to you. It is showing you.

If there is a creator, then this is true.

@kellyjay said
From the macro to micro the laws and forces are tweaked in such a way to support life here. Observed data points pointing to a beginning, placement and rotation of bodies in space rotating in different directions. The tolerances for failure, the endless list of specific materials with conditional qualities and structural requirements necessary for life, all the requirements ...[text shortened]... k the box and spilled the pieces on the board and look at all these words completely done by chance!

For most planets the conditions are 'not' right. Fortunately, the universe is so large that every now and then they are. No 'fine tuning' is involved.

@secondson said
All you can do is disbelieve, since there is no evidence to the contrary, which was the point I made.

Of course, when it is convenient, terms can be said to have different meanings. A theory is merely a supposition or speculation. The theory of evolution falls apart because it is unsupported by any hard evidence, and must therefore be believed in by faith, and the disbelief of known facts.

'A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.' (Wiki).

Fry of course says it better.

@secondson said
All you can do is disbelieve, since there is no evidence to the contrary, which was the point I made.

Of course, when it is convenient, terms can be said to have different meanings. A theory is merely a supposition or speculation. The theory of evolution falls apart because it is unsupported by any hard evidence, and must therefore be believed in by faith, and the disbelief of known facts.

Actually, there is a huge body of empirical evidence in favour of the theory of evolution. You can read about some of it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

@ghost-of-a-duke said
For most planets the conditions are 'not' right. Fortunately, the universe is so large that every now and then they are. No 'fine tuning' is involved.

No, there are constants that applies to the whole, and variables throughout both macro and micro. You think that gravity and the explansion of the universe are varied throughout the universe? The only reason anything can occur are due to the underlying laws of the universe. It is no different than loading new software on a PC, before that happens there has to be a stable fine tuned operating system, before that there needs to be hardware consistent and a perfect fit for all software, before that a necessary environment proper power and so on. A computer built for Europe has different power requirements, yes fine tuning is a big deal. You are acting as if it is a meaningless happenstance glibly ignoring all the necessary things right in front of your eyes!

@kellyjay said
No, there are constants that applies to the whole, and variables throughout both macro and micro. You think that gravity and the explansion of the universe are varied throughout the universe? The only reason anything can occur are due to the underlying laws of the universe. It is no different than loading new software on a PC, before that happens there has to be a stable fin ...[text shortened]... is a meaningless happenstance glibly ignoring all the necessary things right in front of your eyes!

I think we are having different conversations kelly.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think we are having different conversations kelly.

I am talking about the fine tuned universe how it is setup for life from universal laws and constants to microscopic laws and constants! These than are able to support life and how the pass fail values are so tight even small changes within the fine tuned universe could disrupt the whole thing. This is the universe you just said you didn’t believe proved a great designer wasn’t needed.

@secondson said
Besides, we all know that time is a construct and doesn't really exist except as a means of measuring the passing of events.

You once heard something similar to this,
repeat it out of context,
and end up making yourself an even bigger fool.

"Time doesn't really exist".
LOL

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.' (Wiki).

Fry of course says it better.

A theory just the same.

You are merely choosing to believe what you think is a "well-substantiated explanation".

Please be honest sir, and admit you don't know a damn thing for sure, based on alleged "fact-supported theories".

@wolfgang59 said
You once heard something similar to this,
repeat it out of context,
and end up making yourself an even bigger fool.

"Time doesn't really exist".
LOL

Then, smart ass, explain time.

@kazetnagorra said
Actually, there is a huge body of empirical evidence in favour of the theory of evolution. You can read about some of it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Redundant.

@secondson said
Then, smart ass, explain time.

You want me to explain something that you believe does not exist?
LOL
How could I ever be correct?

@secondson said
Creation is speaking to you. It is showing you.

If there is a creator, then this is true.

And if there isn't, it is nonsense.