The Perfect Argument

@secondson said
Nice little rant, but as inconsequential as the rest of your posts in this forum.

What happened to your Christmas spirit? Have you had too many? 😉

-VR

@secondson said
My old friend, I'm so humble it makes me sick to think of how proud I really am. You are a genius, what with the way you trounced all over me in chess. But don't forget how I held you off to a draw in our last game.

Take my wallet, all you'll find in there is my lifetime membership card with the Moral Majority, expired. 😎

How can a "lifetime" membership card be "expired"?

Just asking. 🙂

@suzianne said
How can a "lifetime" membership card be "expired"?

Just asking. 🙂

I failed to read the fine print. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@suzianne said
How can a "lifetime" membership card be "expired"?

Just asking. 🙂

How can an omnipotent and perfectly loving deity allow the innocent to suffer?

Just asking.

@suzianne said
How can a "lifetime" membership card be "expired"?

Just asking. 🙂

I believe it was a joke that just went over your head!!! 😛 😉

You just put in part of what he posted, this is the full statement.

"Take my wallet, all you'll find in there is my lifetime membership card with the Moral Majority, expired".

-VR

@very-rusty said
I believe it was a joke that just went over your head!!! 😛 😉

You just put in part of what he posted, this is the full statement.

"Take my wallet, all you'll find in there is my lifetime membership card with the Moral Majority, expired".

-VR

Rusty, I really wish your arrogant self would stop trying to presume that you're "teaching" me something. This attitude of yours gets really old, really fast.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
How can an omnipotent and perfectly loving deity allow the innocent to suffer?

Just asking.

I don't think he does. I think sometimes what we perceive as suffering is really training for future trials. If we stop and listen, he does prepare us, but we do have to pay attention to 'get' the lesson.

-Removed-

Over 30 years ago at the San Antonio chess club I got into a discussion with an atheist who just happened to be the lifelong best friend of the pastor of the First Baptist Church of San Antonio. He spilled the beans to me about his friend being a "pretend" Christian. Three years later the pastor had to resign in disgrace when it became public knowledge.

@suzianne said
I don't think he does. I think sometimes what we perceive as suffering is really training for future trials. If we stop and listen, he does prepare us, but we do have to pay attention to 'get' the lesson.

That may indeed apply in some cases, but what of the example put forward by the philosopher (who for the life of me I can't remember) who cited the innocent child dying of a terminal disease. If God is indeed all-powerful and all-loving why wouldn't he intercede? He rationalizes that there are only 2 explanations. Either God 'can't' or He 'won't.' - If He can't, then He is not all-powerful, and if He won't, then He is not perfectly loving. The suffering of the innocent makes it impossible for Him to be both.

Not all those who suffer will have the opportunity for future trials.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
That may indeed apply in some cases, but what of the example put forward by the philosopher (who for the life of me I can't remember) who cited the innocent child dying of a terminal disease. If God is indeed all-powerful and all-loving why wouldn't he intercede? He rationalizes that there are only 2 explanations. Either God 'can't' or He 'won't.' - If He can't, then ...[text shortened]... ossible for Him to be both.

Not all those who suffer will have the opportunity for future trials.

I've written about this before. We think it is horrible because if a life is taken, it's our life and we can't see what's coming. What if this life is but as a dream, and what comes next is the real life? We don't see the entirety of God's plan. Sometimes when a child is taken early, we say that God needed that soul right away, and we cannot see that what comes next is better. We also often say that a recently deceased person is now in a better place and atheists scoff and call us cold-hearted, because we don't know any better. There is no doubt that God does love us, even the sinner, for he gave his only begotten Son that we might live.

Theists and atheists differ by faith in God and his plan. Any suffering was not his original plan for us in this life, but the suffering itself can also be trial. We're not here on holiday.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
How can an omnipotent and perfectly loving deity allow the innocent to suffer?

That's a loaded question.

Ok, so you're an atheist, right? (Rhetorical question)

For the sake of discussion let's assume there is such a being, and we have His book that tells us how, who, what and why.

Seems simple enough to me! 🤷🏻‍♂️

@secondson said
For the sake of discussion let's assume there is such a being, and we have His book that tells us how, who, what and why.

Seems simple enough to me! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Most Abrahamic books are a fraud and you cannot prove otherwise.
Perhaps you are referring to some other book ??
Some other god ?

@caissad4 said
Most Abrahamic books are a fraud and you cannot prove otherwise.
Perhaps you are referring to some other book ??
Some other god ?

You know what book I'm referring to. Why post like a fraud?

The Bible has never been proven wrong. Everyone knows that except those that believe the lie. They need the Bible to be a fraud because if it's true they know they'll be judged by it for what they know is wrong with them.