Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
There are two sides to every story.
Indeed some might say there are three.
Your version, the other version and then the truth.
The truth is that the four of you above me here cannot
absolutely prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there
is a God.
While history may recount certain people and events like
Jesus and Moses and the Roman Emp ...[text shortened]... rt
out the problems of the world that he or she should have
sorted out thousands of years ago.
The truth is that the four of you above me here cannot
absolutely prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there
is a God.
No, of course not.
While history may recount certain people and events like
Jesus and Moses and the Roman Empire and all that.
It does not prove that there is any higher power other than
the political system that existed at the time. There is no one
not anybody on this planet that can prove that there is a God
and or that this Jesus was his son and that he had any magical
powers. History only records that these humans existed and it
also records what happened.
Correct, there cannot ever be ironclad proof that there is a God, or that His son came to earth manifested as a human in order to give His life for the salvation of mankind. No one can prove this is true. All correct so far.
History is fallible. Stories can change down through the ages
and sometimes history can be changed to suit some people.
How many times have people had to change their minds
because something new was discovered to offset the previous
opinion that they held before?
History is not fallible. It is what it is. But, yes, man's twist on what is presented as history can and does change. "The victor writes the history." This is often true. There are still greater lessons we can take away from almost every moment in history. We still need to be watchful against repeating history because we fail to learn the greater lessons.
All I am asking is that you keep looking for proper factual
evidence and stop trying to tell people about magical
fairy stories that you cannot prove took place.
Many atheists here take this same stance. Some have even called Christians "dangerous" because of their faith. Factual evidence is great. But its place is to back up one's faith, not be the reason for faith.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith
"Faith is confidence or trust in a person or thing, or a deity or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion. It may also be belief that is not based on proof.
In religion, faith often involves accepting claims about the character of a deity, nature, or the universe. While some have argued that faith is opposed to reason, proponents of faith argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence. For example, faith can be applied to predictions of the future, which (by definition) has not yet occurred.
The word faith is often used as a substitute for hope, trust or belief."
The etymology of the word Faith comes from the concept of
trust. Believers have trust that their God is true and real. Christians have trust in their God that His word, the Bible, is true. Trust is not given through evidence. It comes from belief. To believers, it is not a matter of "magical fairy stories". It is a matter of trust, of faith, of belief, that their God IS real. By definition, this comes without evidence, without proof. What IS magical is that we, as humans, have been given the ability to have faith, to see truth beyond proof.
I've maintained in this very forum that proof of God is impossible. In Christianity (I'm sorry but I am not qualified to speak of other religions), faith is paramount. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, KJV) Belief. It is ALL about the belief. That is all that is necessary to begin our walk with God. In order for our belief to save us, belief MUST be the product of a free will. We cannot be coerced into it. We cannot just SAY we believe if belief is not in our heart. It must be the result of a decision to follow God and to accept what He promises is true. We must believe, and we cannot be rewarded for our faith if God just hands us proof of His existence on a silver platter. Proof destroys faith. Because if we have proof, then it is not belief, but fact. One cannot argue against a fact. But to have free will, we must also be free to choose against faith. We must be able to choose not to believe. In this way, while there is punishment for unbelief, it is our choice to refuse to believe. And if we have proof of God as a fact, then how could anyone choose not to believe a fact? We can't, therefore proof of God is impossible. If the requirement to advance to heaven is faith, then we cannot be exposed to any actual facts which prove (or disprove) God. End of story.
The teachings of Jesus are sound. I wish everyone would
follow them and maybe then we would have a better world.
Amen, my friend. Amen. This is what Christianity is about, regardless of how many evil men try to get in the way with distractions from this central tenet. I include popes and church leaders among those evil men, if they promote evil. This does not take away from our mission to follow the Christ.
But is there a God? And was Jesus his son?
Those who believe say Yes, and we strive to spread the Good News, the Gospel, in order to expose as many as possible to the true inheritance of man, the promise of salvation offered within. Free will still applies, and they are welcome to make their choice. But we are tasked to bring as many to God as would come.
No one can prove that. Religion is a crutch for humanity
to lean on because humanity is not strong enough to sort
out the problems of the world that he or she should have
sorted out thousands of years ago.
No, no one can prove that. That is the beauty and the genius of it. And I agree that "humanity is not strong enough to sort out the problems of the world that he or she should have sorted out thousands of years ago." That is why we need God and Jesus. The real reward of Christianity is not in this world, but the next. This world is a creation of man, it cannot be perfect. But the Kingdom of God holds that promise out to us.
I do not agree that "Religion is a crutch for humanity to lean on". Religion is the hope for mankind. To slip the bonds of evil and experience perfect love, perfect justice. Too many times, this world does not reward the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger after righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers, those who are reviled and persecuted for Jesus' sake. But Jesus tells us that great will be our reward in heaven, that we are the salt of the earth, that we are the light of the world. This is our armor for surviving a world which reviles us.