Originally posted by twhitehead So are you claiming that your denomination, and you personally are free from sin? If not, then can we not ask the same questions of you?
sorry i missed the part where the assertion that we are 'free from sin', was made, perhaps you can reference it.
Originally posted by twhitehead So are you claiming that your denomination, and you personally are free from sin? If not, then can we not ask the same questions of you?
Nope... We all sin. But again the fruit that a religion produces is the telling sign of what the spiritual condition it is in. Not my words but the Bibles explination of how a religion stands up to God's standards. Bad tree..bad fruit.
And yes there is a bad problem with many "so called" Christian religions on many levels.
Originally posted by galveston75 Nope... We all sin. But again the fruit that a religion produces is the telling sign of what the spiritual condition it is in. Not my words but the Bibles explination of how a religion stands up to God's standards. Bad tree..bad fruit.
And yes there is a bad problem with many "so called" Christian religions on many levels.
So, are you claiming that your particular religion is totally free from bad fruit?
In case you are missing the point (as you appear to be), either your religion is totally free of bad fruit, or it is all a mater of relative badness, or quantity of bad fruit, is it not? If that is the case, then it is unfair to simply pick one example of a bad fruit and declare that religion to be a bad tree. In fact, you would have to show that that religion has significantly more bad fruit than yours just to show that it was a worse tree than yours, but it would be practically impossible to show that your own religion is not a bad tree.
Originally posted by twhitehead So, are you claiming that your particular religion is totally free from bad fruit?
In case you are missing the point (as you appear to be), either your religion is totally free of bad fruit, or it is all a mater of relative badness, or quantity of bad fruit, is it not? If that is the case, then it is unfair to simply pick one example of a bad fruit and ...[text shortened]... yours, but it would be practically impossible to show that your own religion is not a bad tree.
No I'm not saying that we are free from mistakes as I said earlier that we are all imperfect. You must have missed that point.
But there is a really big differance in a few instances of this happening over a few years then it happening thousands of times and over probably centuries of time.
And the really big point is the hiding and moving around of ones that are doing this. And it aparently goes all the way to the top....
So any tree can have a bad fruit or two. It will happen. But when it appears that the whole tree is bad....Well there you go.
Originally posted by galveston75 But when it appears that the whole tree is bad....Well there you go.
But you haven't shown that the whole tree is bad. We all know that there have been bad fruit, but then you already admitted that no denomination/ religion is free from those.
I find your conclusion that a the whole tree is bad based on some Child molesting priests and some cover up to be rather unreasonable. do you realize just how big the Catholic Church is and what a small proportion this represents? Also, as pointed out by Conrau K, it is hardly the only denomination to experience such scandals. Is your Church free from child molesters? Can you prove that? Do you even have statistics to show that you have proportionally less child molesters and cover ups?
I would expect you to at least point out some of the much worse bad fruit the Catholic Church has accumulated over the centuries.
But your argument is all one of proportion isn't it. You claim that if there are enough bad fruit then the tree is bad. But the problem as I pointed out is that you cleverly place the critical quantity of bad fruit somewhere between your denomination and the one you are claiming is a bad tree. Sadly, since you don't actually present any stats for your denomination we must take your word for it that it is any better.
Originally posted by twhitehead But you haven't shown that the whole tree is bad. We all know that there have been bad fruit, but then you already admitted that no denomination/ religion is free from those.
I find your conclusion that a the whole tree is bad based on some Child molesting priests and some cover up to be rather unreasonable. do you realize just how big the Catholic Churc ...[text shortened]... present any stats for your denomination we must take your word for it that it is any better.
But it's just not the sex abuse to consider but one has to look at the Catholics as a whole and what they teach. Then the big picture of the fruit it bears comes into view.
I'm in the middle of moving and don't have the time to make the long list of things that they believe that goes totally contrary to Bible. But much of it has been discussed in other forums.
But one that is being discussed is idolitry which is such a simple thing to see, even in the original 10 commandments. But yet they've steped away from the Bible and have created doctrines that they now follow and accept as truth. The Bible is no longer their guide.
01 Apr '10 15:391 edit
The Pope and Sex
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