the problem with evil...

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Wrong.

No, you're wrong!

Mo, you are!

No, you!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Sorry, but this entire premise is flawed. Evil acts may have positive consequences, but that does not change the fact that the acts themselves are evil.

that's very cheap!!! read again.... you are saying an evil act is evil and that's it... rubbish... so the whole act is 100% evil... how can something good come from it then...???

Originally posted by eatmybishop
that's very cheap!!! read again.... you are saying an evil act is evil and that's it... rubbish... so the whole act is 100% evil... how can something good come from it then...???

I'm not sure why you chose to bundle some of those things together. Perhaps you're trying too hard to make a point. The raped woman example is in particularly bad taste. You obviously have never cared about someone who was a victim of sexual assault.

That said, how about if we try an example that's not in the good / evil realm? It might be easier for you to see.

Let's say I'm playing chess, get careless and leave a rook en prise which gets taken - a serious blunder. Later on I end up winning because my opponent gets overconfident and loses focus. My serious blunder was still a serious blunder. I suppose I could try and tell myself that it wasn't really a serious blunder because it led to a win - but c'mon...

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Perhaps, but at least mine doesn't kill epileptics.

Nooo kkkkkkkkkidddiinn.....g...g..g........

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Your theology sounds like some amalgamation of Mormon/Unity/Transformer. We'll call your people MUT's.

I suppose he could be a Satanist.

Originally posted by hopscotch
The devil is not evil, he is just doing his job, he is in charge of hell and punishes sinners so he is good. He is an Angel called Lucifer.

According to Christ Satan does three things. Kill, steal, and destroy. Yea, he sounds like a nice chap. What you are saying is that God told him to do it. My question to you then is, why does God tell him to sin? Is God not holy? Call me crazy but the last time I read scripture God says that he abhors sin.

Originally posted by whodey
According to Christ Satan does three things. Kill, steal, and destroy.

Funny, didn't Kerry say the same thing about Bush in the last election??

Originally posted by whodey
According to Christ Satan does three things. Kill, steal, and destroy. Yea, he sounds like a nice chap. What you are saying is that God told him to do it. My question to you then is, why does God tell him to sin? Is God not holy? Call me crazy but the last time I read scripture God says that he abhors sin.

If God did not want Satan around, then why would he continue to allow Satan's existence... unless Satan was as powerful as God, which I doubt.

Also, God abhors sin, yet he gave us free will. If you remove Satan and Sin from the universe then it would not be the universe as God created.

Originally posted by whodey
According to Christ Satan does three things. Kill, steal, and destroy. Yea, he sounds like a nice chap. What you are saying is that God told him to do it. My question to you then is, why does God tell him to sin? Is God not holy? Call me crazy but the last time I read scripture God says that he abhors sin.

God has told lots of people to kill steal and destroy as documented quite thoroughly throughout most of the old testament. He even did some of the killing and destroying himself. As per another thread, if the action is commanded by God it is not sin.

If god is so insecure he had to create man to have someone to worship him, then he is imperfect and deserving of no consideration. Also, if sin is so offensive to him, why did he initiate the temptation to perform sinful acts? Lets be realistic god as described by christians is the most imperfect progenerator of happiness and joy ever to rule the heavens. Inconsistent and delusional. He needs to use some of those lightening bolts to give himself a shock treatment or two. EVIL...............evil is in the eye of the beholder. What was religion yesterday is superstition today, and what is religion today will be superstition tomorrow. Get off your train befor the big wreck🙄

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I'm not sure why you chose to bundle some of those things together. Perhaps you're trying too hard to make a point. The raped woman example is in particularly bad taste. You obviously have never cared about someone who was a victim of sexual assault.

That said, how about if we try an example that's not in the good / evil realm? It might be easier for y ...[text shortened]... ell myself that it wasn't really a serious blunder because it led to a win - but c'mon...

firstly, please don't patronise me by implying i know nothing about the mental and physical trauma of rape; i was using an example to display how a positive outcome can stem from a negative act...

this discussion will be hard to continue as you seem so narrow minded to think outside the box it will be difficult for you to appreciate the scenarios that i have portaryed that forces you to do so...

you are still stating that an act is either evil or it is good and that's it... therefore, along your line of thinking, all murder is evil, all kindness is good and that's it... i only wish i could live in that simple one dimensional way of looking at the world... unfortuantely for you, the world, its people and their acts are far more complex and deeper than your way of thinking allows; you cannot simply labeling each one and placing it in the relevant two boxes (good! evil!)

Originally posted by Evil Pawn 666
If god is so insecure he had to create man to have someone to worship him, then he is imperfect and deserving of no consideration. Also, if sin is so offensive to him, why did he initiate the temptation to perform sinful acts? Lets be realistic god as described by christians is the most imperfect progenerator of happiness and joy ever to rule the heave ...[text shortened]... what is religion today will be superstition tomorrow. Get off your train befor the big wreck🙄

The way you learned to play chess, by further and further study - do you think that same attitude can be applied to understanding the Bible and Christian faith?

Originally posted by eatmybishop
firstly, please don't patronise me by implying i know nothing about the mental and physical trauma of rape; i was using an example to display how a positive outcome can stem from a negative act...

this discussion will be hard to continue as you seem so narrow minded to think outside the box it will be difficult for you to appreciate the scenarios tha s; you cannot simply labeling each one and placing it in the relevant two boxes (good! evil!)

if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, has the child and that child grows up and finds a cure for cancer was that act evil..?

You were questioning whether the act itself was evil. You ask anyone who's been a victim of rape if she thought the act was evil. I realize that you're probably some high school kid, but there comes a time when one needs to realize that some acts are evil in and of themselves and rape is certainly one of them. I'm guessing you're an intelligent guy, but you have a lot to learn about life.

you are still stating that an act is either evil or it is good and that's it...you cannot simply labeling each one and placing it in the relevant two boxes (good! evil!)

How you got that out of this I'll never know:
Evil acts may have positive consequences, but that does not change the fact that the acts themselves are evil.

This in no way implies all acts can be divided into purely evil or purely good. However it does say that purely evil acts are evil regardless of any other consequences that may happen to occur.

Let's try again with an example going the other way. Let's say you donate some soccer balls to a group that provides recreational opportunities for disadvantaged youth. You did so purely out of the kindness of your heart. However, later a youth gets struck by a car after he darted out into the street to retrieve a ball. Is your donation now somehow less purely good as a result of this consequence?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, has the child and that child grows up and finds a cure for cancer was that act evil..?

You were questioning whether the act itself was evil. You ask anyone who's been a victim of rape if she thought the act was evil. I realize that you're probably some high school kid, but there comes a time when ...[text shortened]... e a ball. Is your donation now somehow less purely good as a result of this consequence?[/b]

naive... naive... naive...

don't forget my original question was does good and evil come from the same source... this pointless debate with you is sidetracking the original comment...

you are still saying that an act is evil and that is it... if you say no to this, answer me this question: is all murder evil..? is all rape evil..? what is the answer to these two questions??? yes..? yet you know nothing about the psychological meaning behind these acts and you are saying there is no justification to these acts... not ever...

you have just condemmed every murderer and rapists who has ever walked this earth, yet you do not know their story, their reasons... only the other day i read of a man who raped a man, it later turned out the rapist was raped many, many times by that same man as a child and so seeked revenge... this man has never raped another, never hurt another, yet because of your way of thinking, you have classed the act as evil, therefore this man is evil, therefore, he is on the same par as a serial rapist who enjoys what he does... i hope your god is more open minded than you when you face judgement...