the problem with evil...

Originally posted by eatmybishop
naive... naive... naive...

don't forget my original question was does good and evil come from the same source... this pointless debate with you is sidetracking the original comment...

you are still saying that an act is evil and that is it... if you say no to this, answer me this question: is all murder evil..? is all rape evil..? what is the answ ...[text shortened]... enjoys what he does... i hope your god is more open minded than you when you face judgement...

You do like putting words in people's mouths don't you? If nothing else you're consistent. Just one non sequitur after another.

What makes this debate pointless is that you can only bring a child's sensibility to it. But take heart, perhaps someday the following will apply to you.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

There's a lot of wisdom in the bible even if one doesn't believe in God.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You do like putting words in people's mouths don't you? If nothing else you're consistent. Just one non sequitur after another.

What makes this debate pointless is that you can only bring a child's sensibility to it. But take heart, perhaps someday the following will apply to you.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I used to speak like a chil ...[text shortened]... dish things.

There's a lot of wisdom in the bible even if one doesn't believe in God.

The rest is very good too:

"For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face:

now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.

But now abides faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love"

I like this because even the man who wrote 13 books of the New Testament admits that we all who believe only know in part, we prophesy or teach in part. Our understanding is partial. But we ourselves are fully known by God. And the day will come when we will fully know as we ourselves are known.

Though we know in part, though perceive as looking through a cloudy mirror we still have the great trio - faith, hope, love.

We can tell God that we simply love Him for Who He is. Not so much for what He can give or do for us, we can love Him. But simply because He is wonderful we can love Him. The greatest of these is love.

Anyway, the rest of that passage is good too.

Originally posted by jaywill
The rest is very good too:

[b]"For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face:

now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.

But now abides faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love"

I like this because even the man who wrote 13 books of the New Testament adm ...[text shortened]... im. The greatest of these is love.

Anyway, the rest of that passage is good too.[/b]

🙂

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You do like putting words in people's mouths don't you? If nothing else you're consistent. Just one non sequitur after another.

What makes this debate pointless is that you can only bring a child's sensibility to it. But take heart, perhaps someday the following will apply to you.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I used to speak like a chil ...[text shortened]... dish things.

There's a lot of wisdom in the bible even if one doesn't believe in God.

sounds right... how often i have come across this... whenever a christian doesnt know what to say for himself, he uses the bible

Originally posted by eatmybishop
sounds right... how often i have come across this... whenever a christian doesnt know what to say for himself, he uses the bible

Thanks for the compliment 🙂 A compliment based on yet another erroneous assumption, but I'll take it as a compliment nevertheless.

You seem to have little to say unless you resort to non sequiturs, assumptions and putting words in the mouths of others. Why is that?

Originally posted by hopscotch
If God did not want Satan around, then why would he continue to allow Satan's existence... unless Satan was as powerful as God, which I doubt.

Also, God abhors sin, yet he gave us free will. If you remove Satan and Sin from the universe then it would not be the universe as God created.

This is a fair enough question, however, the Bible simply does not say exactly. Therefore, we are free to speculate but keep in mind that it is ONLY speculation. I would, therefore be wary of building my theology around such speculations.

Your scenerio is but one of many possible scenerios. For example, is God not a God of his word? Perhaps Satan was promised a certain time upon earth before the fall? Therefore, perhaps what time Satan has left is nothing more than a fulfillment of some prior contract of some kind?

You do forget one minor detail. In Revelation we see Satan meet his end. So why is it that he will meet his end? You say that if God removes Satan and sin from the universe that the universe would then not be as God created it. However, Satan will be removed according to Revelation. The real question should then be why the wait and not if it should be done in general because it is as good as done according to Revelation.

Do keep in mind that God created Lucifer, not Satan. Lucifer became Satan upon his own will when he fell. Sin is not a creation, rather, sin is merely rejecting the word of your Creator. In and of itself, sin does not exist.

Originally posted by twhitehead
God has told lots of people to kill steal and destroy as documented quite thoroughly throughout most of the old testament. He even did some of the killing and destroying himself. As per another thread, if the action is commanded by God it is not sin.

But just as you would in a court of law you should first determane why one kills/steals/etc. For example, if you were defending a loved one from harm would you kill for them? The real question then becomes intent/motive. For God the motive appears to me to be one out of love for his creation. At times wickedness gets so out of control that it threatens the destruction of his creation. The choice then becomes either to let them completly destroy themselves or take out the sources of such wickedness so that creation in general will continue to have hope of life. Satan, on the other hand, is motivated by hate. He simply wants to see God's creation suffer because Satan hates God due to his rejection of God's Lordship over him and he knows that God still cares for his creation and does not want to see them suffer.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Thanks for the compliment 🙂 A compliment based on yet another erroneous assumption, but I'll take it as a compliment nevertheless.

You seem to have little to say unless you resort to non sequiturs, assumptions and putting words in the mouths of others. Why is that?

i was merely stating what you said, i was not trying to say you are wrong, only trying to present you with a different persepective on a situation... my point was and is i don't think you can say an act is evil and that is that, it will always have a deeper level and meaning than what we care to look for... with regard to rape you are right, ask any victim of rape and they will say it carries no justification other than to fulfil the desires of a sick mind and they would be right; i don't wish to insult anyone's horrific experience of what rape has caused on a person, but my point is look at the act from beyond the view of the rapist or the victim and we are - sometimes - presented with a different view on the reasons and whys of this act, this goes beyond having a label as simple as saying it is evil

Originally posted by eatmybishop
i was merely stating what you said, i was not trying to say you are wrong, only trying to present you with a different persepective on a situation... my point was and is i don't think you can say an act is evil and that is that, it will always have a deeper level and meaning than what we care to look for... with regard to rape you are right, ask any vict ...[text shortened]... reasons and whys of this act, this goes beyond having a label as simple as saying it is evil

i was merely stating what you said, i was not trying to say you are wrong

You may not realize it, but your posts go way beyond "merely stating" what I said. See if you can step outside of yourself and re-read the posts in our discussion from the viewpoint of a neutral observer.

look at the act from beyond the view of the rapist or the victim

I don't know why you continue to try to defend the indefensible. It is an act that requires malevolent intent or depraved indifference. It is therefore evil.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]i was merely stating what you said, i was not trying to say you are wrong

You may not realize it, but your posts go way beyond "merely stating" what I said. See if you can step outside of yourself and re-read the posts in our discussion from the viewpoint of a neutral observer.

look at the act from beyond the view of the rapist or the vic ...[text shortened]... It is an act that requires malevolent intent or depraved indifference. It is therefore evil.

...so is it only rape we're talking about here... how about murder... is that also an evil act no matter what...? (get out of this one then)

Originally posted by eatmybishop
...so is it only rape we're talking about here... how about murder... is that also an evil act no matter what...? (get out of this one then)

Tell you what. If you go back and re-read the posts in our discussion and can demonstrate that you have a basic understanding of what's been discussed thus far, I'll be happy to continue this discussion. As it stands now, I get the impression that you're pretty much saying things just to have something to say.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Tell you what. If you go back and re-read the posts in our discussion and can demonstrate that you have a basic understanding of what's been discussed thus far, I'll be happy to continue this discussion. As it stands now, I get the impression that you're pretty much saying things just to have something to say.

says the person who runs out of things to say and so uses quotes from the bible instead

Originally posted by whodey
Satan, on the other hand, is motivated by hate.

In the previous post you talked about how you could only speculate about some things but now you claim to understand Satan quite well. Does the Bible tell you all about Satan and his motives?

Also, my post was in reply to your post asking: "My question to you then is, why does God tell him to sin?"
In other words the motive is already known. The motive is a command by God. It was not sin.