Originally posted by Rajk999
If you know the teachings of Christ you would know that when asked how does one get salvation, His response was to love your neighbour. When asked who is my neighbour He gave the parable of the Good Samaritan. In Matt 25 He said the kingdom will be inhabited by those who do good works.

Many Christians have chosen to ignore Christ's constant advice to do g ...[text shortened]... ple might have to answer therefore is "..why have you ignored my teachings to do good works."

Ah...I see.....so it is a mere declaration of faith without any following works that you object to?

So I presume that a man declares a genuine faith (that is deep and sincere which would obviously result in works) then you are Ok with the idea of such a faith saving him?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Mine does----Lutheran--Mo. Synod.

I think you misread what he wrote:

Originally posted by Conrau K
I know of no Christian church which argues salvation can be achieved exclusively by works.

Unless your church is some bizarre breakaway congregation, the Missouri Synod Lutherans subscribe
to the credo 'Grace alone. Faith alone. Scripture alone,' that faith in the death and resurrection of
Jesus is the sole article by which salvation takes place.

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=112

Of all the mainstream denominations, Lutherans are the ones who stress works the least, which
is why I think that you misread ConrauK.

Nemesio

Originally posted by knightmeister
If one must perform works to "get" salvation then doesn't this undermine the works anyway? If our acts of kindness are motivated by a desire to get something from God (eg salvation) then are they really acts of kindness ? I would say that they are more likely to be self serving acts with a hidden agenda rather than acts of love.

If anyone knows t ...[text shortened]... urns everything on it's head. Thieves go to paradise and "holy" men are damned.

I see your point in this statement. The plan of salvation is so simple, it is made complicated by those who really are not willing to accept it.

Originally posted by Nemesio
I think you misread what he wrote:

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]I know of no Christian church which argues salvation can be achieved exclusively by works.

Unless your church is some bizarre breakaway congregation, the Missouri Synod Lutherans subscribe
to the credo 'Grace alone. Faith alone. Scripture alone,' that faith in the death a ...[text shortened]... he ones who stress works the least, which
is why I think that you misread ConrauK.

Nemesio[/b]

Thanks Nem---you're right--I completely misread that one. Botched completely.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Thanks Nem---you're right--I completely misread that one. Botched completely.

I worked in a Lutheran Church for 19 months when I was younger (ELCA,
though). I learned my fair share of Lutheran theology while I was there;
the pastor was very well educated (and a super nice guy).

I figured you misread it. 😀

Nemesio

Originally posted by knightmeister
Ah...I see.....so it is a mere declaration of faith without any following works that you object to?

So I presume that a man declares a genuine faith (that is deep and sincere which would obviously result in works) then you are Ok with the idea of such a faith saving him?

Nobody knows if a declaration of faith is genuine except Christ.
Therefore nobody should claim that they are saved.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Nobody knows if a declaration of faith is genuine except Christ.
Therefore nobody should claim that they are saved.

But Paul said we aren't to go about in fear that we are NOT saved, right?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
But Paul said we aren't to go about in fear that we are NOT saved, right?

So there are only two options here ;
1. Fear that we are not saved OR
2. Believing that we are saved no matter what we do, whether it be good works, or no works or evil works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Nobody knows if a declaration of faith is genuine except Christ.
Therefore nobody should claim that they are saved.

What? Are you saying that even the person themselves does not know if he is genuine or not? In that case how would he know if his works were genuine either.

If you applied this logic to everything no man could ever be assured of salvation until he got to heaven , and I'm darned sure that that's not what God wants for his followers.

Even so , if only Christ knows that one's faith is genuine (and the individual does not) do you not think that Christ is able to re-assure such an individual that he is saved via his Spirit? Of course he is.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So there are only two options here ;
1. Fear that we are not saved OR
2. Believing that we are saved no matter what we do, whether it be good works, or no works or evil works.

Lol!!!! A classic polarised "all or nothing" position. You really don't get it do you?

The only way one can have assurance is if one knows in his heart that his faith is genuine. One can only know that assurance if the faith is true , and if the faith is true and genuine then a lifestyle will ensue naturally.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Lol!!!! A classic polarised "all or nothing" position. You really don't get it do you?

The only way one can have assurance is if one knows in his heart that his faith is genuine. One can only know that assurance if the faith is true , and if the faith is true and genuine then a lifestyle will ensue naturally.

Thats what PinkFloyd is saying.
I was asking him " ... are there only two options here????"
Read what PF said.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thats what PinkFloyd is saying.
I was asking him " ... are there only two options here????"
Read what PF said.

fair enough