1. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 00:54
    Spacious No-Mind, where complete doubt and complete surety are the same. To know fully what a 'thing' is one needs also to know fully what it is not. This is the meeting place of existence and non-existence. The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all.
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
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    12 May '13 01:22
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Spacious No-Mind, where complete doubt and complete surety are the same. To know fully what a 'thing' is one needs also to know fully what it is not. This is the meeting place of existence and non-existence. The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all.
    That's what I love about bagels. The hole in the center helps me understand its essence.

    (Plus any excuse for cream cheese works...)
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 07:181 edit
    Bagel is; bagel isn't.
  4. Joined
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    12 May '13 10:00
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Spacious No-Mind, where complete doubt and complete surety are the same. To know fully what a 'thing' is one needs also to know fully what it is not. This is the meeting place of existence and non-existence. The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all.
    Do you just make this stuff up when you're on the bus or do you use a app.
  5. Joined
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    12 May '13 10:31
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Spacious No-Mind, where complete doubt and complete surety are the same. To know fully what a 'thing' is one needs also to know fully what it is not. This is the meeting place of existence and non-existence. The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all.
    "The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all."


    an approach i tried aged 13-24, i then discovered the opposite was true and that the greatest achievements are gained when trying really hard.
  6. Account suspended
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    12 May '13 10:351 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    [b]"The greatest achievement is one that is gained without trying at all."


    an approach i tried aged 13-24, i then discovered the opposite was true and that the greatest achievements are gained when trying really hard.[/b]
    what happened, did you eventually build a Lego Millennium Falcon?
  7. Joined
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    12 May '13 10:40
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what happened, did you eventually build a Lego Millennium Falcon?
    ahh the millennium falcon a challenge even the guild of master lego craftsmen shy away from.
  8. Account suspended
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    12 May '13 10:45
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    ahh the millennium falcon a challenge even the guild of master lego craftsmen shy away from.
    geek!
  9. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 12:08
    Yes it can be done that way. But if you are able to achieve what you are aiming at with hardly lifting a finger, (and it happens), surely that is better than expending all that costly and unnecessary effort? Strive, when needful, but don't waste your effort when you don't need to. The person who achieves the same aim as you with less effort is the greater.
  10. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
    North of the Tamar
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    12 May '13 12:19
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Yes it can be done that way. But if you are able to achieve what you are aiming at with hardly lifting a finger, (and it happens), surely that is better than expending all that costly and unnecessary effort? Strive, when needful, but don't waste your effort when you don't need to. The person who achieves the same aim as you with less effort is the greater.
    I'm trying to achieve mastery of some complex Afro-Cuban 4 way coordination patterns on the drumset. I'd like someone to explain how that can be done by 'hardly lifting a finger'.
  11. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 12:32
    To be utterly sure you must eradicate utterly the opposite possibility completely. Conversely, to remove the possibility of something completely you must ensure 100% that its antithesis would never arise. Both of these are impossible and vanish like a wisp of smoke. You can never be absolutely sure and you can never absolutely not know, so both are the same as each other, empty of finality. Clinging to either doubt or surety is not helpful. Hold with both hands these two lightly and the stream may be crossed.
    Where is your application?
  12. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 12:41
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I'm trying to achieve mastery of some complex Afro-Cuban 4 way coordination patterns on the drumset. I'd like someone to explain how that can be done by 'hardly lifting a finger'.
    I am not saying you can. I am seeking a breaking out of our set ways of thinking. Doing anything with less effort is always better both in effort and skill than striving beyond what is necessary. We are often told to strive, strive, strive. Perhaps your playing would be better if you relax, relax, relax?
  13. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
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    12 May '13 12:57
    Originally posted by Taoman
    I am not saying you can. I am seeking a breaking out of our set ways of thinking. Doing anything with less effort is always better both in effort and skill than striving beyond what is necessary. We are often told to strive, strive, strive. Perhaps your playing would be better if you relax, relax, relax?
    I can assure you I'm perfectly relaxed whe I play and when I practice. I worked out a long time ago that frustration does help the learning process.

    Can you give an example of something which can achieved by hardly lifting a finger.
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    12 May '13 13:55
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I can assure you I'm perfectly relaxed whe I play and when I practice. I worked out a long time ago that frustration does help the learning process.

    Can you give an example of something which can achieved by hardly lifting a finger.
    1. Someone insists that his way is the best way; I do nothing and he finds out what am trying to show him all by himself, by confronting the errors I was trying to point out and he wouldn't listen. By constantly harrassing him I was preventing him and distracting from doing the one way he would learn what I wanted him to see.
    2. A complex problem is concerning me. I worry about it, think about it constantly. A friend says go to bed and stop worrying about it. I do. After a good sleep the answer appears. This is a well known example where backing off can be helpful.
    3. Countless are the problems caused by simply not listening in a situation.
    4. One of the best ways to heal is to rest, do nothing and lessen stress.
    5. Too many words said at the wrong time can cause a hell of a lot of problems. Silence would have been better.
    6. I worked in psychiatry. One wise doctor would regularly not immediately prescribe medications, treatments etc. and would wait, contain the situation and do nothing. It was interesting how many complex issues of a patient's care resolved off themselves given sometime to do so.
    7. A number of martial arts rely on NOT applying one's force, and in yielding moves redirect the opponents energy.
    8. Stealth is a form of doing nothing, as is strategic withdrawal.
    9. Many attest to the benefits of spending time sitting silently meditating regularly. These range from the relief of harmful stress, clearer thinking, a calmer clearer way of working and surprising arising of insights about problems and life.
    10. Taking time to do nothing but be aware can even save your life.
    11. The person who always takes in chess because he or she can is not a good player. The really good players know when it is good to NOT respond to the direct threat. This can also apply militarily.
    12 Acting in such a way as to deflect your enemy from what would harm his progress is self defeating. Best do nothing and let him go ahead.
    13. The filibuster is a highly active form of doing precisely nothing.
    14. In some survival situations doing nothing and staying put can mean the difference of life and death.
    15 How many of us have wished we had done nothing rather than the something that left us with a painful, sometimes lifelong outcome?

    Often doing nothing, not lifting a finger is very much what is required, Proper Knob.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
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    12 May '13 13:56
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I can assure you I'm perfectly relaxed whe I play and when I practice. I worked out a long time ago that frustration does help the learning process.

    Can you give an example of something which can achieved by hardly lifting a finger.
    Poverty.

    The Instructor
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