Originally posted by dj2beckerI am afraid it is you that is on the wrong bus. Entropy is not a measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
Now I see where you have fallen out of the bus.
Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system. This means that an increase in entropy is an increase in disorder. A [b]decrease in entropy implies an increase in order.[/b]
Originally posted by dj2beckerI have agreed that there are special cases where local order can increase at the expense of greater disorder elsewhere.
[b]The earth is not a closed system. Provided we have a energy input (the sun) localised decreases in entropy can occur. This is manifestly true, as demonstrated by things like plant growth (energy input from the sun builds small molecules (CO2 and H2O) into complex carbohydrates, cell walls etc, or even by a simple process like evaporation, where ...[text shortened]... formation, otherwise the high energy radiation destroys them as quickly as they are produced.
Fine. You accept then that neither abiogenesis nor evolution violates the 2nd law.
Thread over.
Perhaps this has been mentioned already, but the first living thing and the most common living thing even now is bacteria. Is bacteria more complex than certain non-living things like a snowflake?
Even living things more complex are not anywhere near as complex as certain non-living things: is an amoeba more complex than the ocean or a supernova? The whole idea that life is necessarily more complex than non-life is absurd.
Originally posted by dj2beckerStop being willfully disingenuous. You could have a life in politics, you'd make an excellent spin doctor.
If by evolution you mean an ever increasing complexity in organisms over time, then I would say that defies the 2nd law as it is defined by Asimov.
Now for the 4th time, answer the question as it stands, yes or no, using the correct definition of terms, not any particular personal one you choose:
Do you concede that the ToE does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadEntropy: A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
I am afraid it is [b]you that is on the wrong bus. Entropy is not a measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.[/b]
http://www.answers.com/topic/entropy
Your rocket-ship jocks are showing.
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Originally posted by scottishinnzNot at all. I suggest you read further than the first sentence of my post.
I have agreed that there are special cases where local order can increase at the expense of greater disorder elsewhere.
Fine. You accept then that neither abiogenesis nor evolution violates the 2nd law.
Thread over.[/b]
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Originally posted by no1marauderWhat makes the ocean more complex than an amoeba? The fact that it contains life?
Perhaps this has been mentioned already, but the first living thing and the most common living thing even now is bacteria. Is bacteria more complex than certain non-living things like a snowflake?
Even living things more complex are not anywhere near as complex as certain non-living things: is an amoeba more complex than the ocean or a supernova? The whole idea that life is necessarily more complex than non-life is absurd.
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Originally posted by StarrmanEntropy: Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
And you continually fail to see that that does not make the earth subject to the same closed systrem rules. Why am I bothering? Screw this pointless debate.
http://www.answers.com/topic/entropy
This applies to an open or closed system, and you are just willfully ignoring this fact. Suit yourself. You are probably living on Mars by the look of things.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics describes basic principles familiar in everyday life. It is partially a universal law of decay; the ultimate cause of why everything ultimately falls apart and disintegrates over time. Material things are not eternal. Everything appears to change eventually, and chaos increases. Nothing stays as fresh as the day one buys it; clothing becomes faded, threadbare, and ultimately returns to dust.2 Everything ages and wears out. Even death is a manifestation of this law. The effects of the 2nd Law are all around, touching everything in the universe.
Each year, vast sums are spent to counteract the relentless effects of this law (maintenance, painting, medical bills, etc.). Ultimately, everything in nature is obedient to its unchanging laws.