Originally posted by dj2beckerUm, you said that there was an inability for life to form from non-life, and that this constituted
First define what you mean by 'evolution'. The term is used to mean many things.
some sort of dispositive proof of however you define evolution. I proposed a hypothetical, since
your belief seems to hinge on the non-existence of abiogenesis. The definition of evolution in
play is whichever one you think is problematic.
Are you going to answer it?
Nemesio
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Originally posted by NemesioI do not think it is possible for life to evolve if life does not exist.
Um, you said that there was an inability for life to form from non-life, and that this constituted
some sort of dispositive proof of however you define evolution. I proposed a hypothetical, since
your belief seems to hinge on the non-existence of abiogenesis. The definition of evolution in
play is whichever one you think is problematic.
Are you going to answer it?
Nemesio
Originally posted by dj2beckerThat doesn't answer the question. I said, if it can be shown from a
I do not think it is possible for life to evolve if life does not exist.
laboratory experiment that life can indeed form from non-life, would
you abandon your notion that macro-evolution is a non-viable theory?
Nemesio
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2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioNot fully, since abiogenesis is only the necessary starting point IMO. But I prefer to tackle something from it's starting point.
That doesn't answer the question. I said, if it can be shown from a
laboratory experiment that life can indeed form from non-life, would
you abandon your notion that macro-evolution is a non-viable theory?
Nemesio
On the other hand, I believe the fossil record actually shows that ancient specimens have forms virtually identical to life-forms in existence today. If the fossil record confirms anything, it conforms the reality of little change. Plants and animals that existed 'millions of years ago' are much like plants and animals today.
"The oldest fossils of land dwelling animals are millipedes, dating to more than 425 million years ago. Incredibly the archaic forms are nearly indistinguishable from certain groups living today."
William A. Shear, "Millipedes," American Scientist, vol. 87 (May/June 1999), p.234
Also, today we have tens of millions of fossils that have been unearthed and categorized. We have defined 250,000 distinct fossilized species. If true transitional forms existed, we would have at least the same number of transitional species - perhaps far more, given that many changes would have taken place over time.
1 edit
Originally posted by dj2beckerYes. Neither have intelligence. The amoeba is more complex though.
You mean to say that an amoeba is NOT more intelligent than a rock?
[edit; for your education;
in·tel·li·gence (ĭn-tĕl'ə-jəns) pronunciation
n.
1.
1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
2. The faculty of thought and reason.
3. Superior powers of mind. See synonyms at mind.
2. An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.
3. Information; news. See synonyms at news.
4.
1. Secret information, especially about an actual or potential enemy.
2. An agency, staff, or office employed in gathering such information.
3. Espionage agents, organizations, and activities considered as a group: “Intelligence is nothing if not an institutionalized black market in perishable commodities” (John le Carré😉.
An amoeba fulfils none of those definitions.]
Originally posted by dj2beckerEvery species is a transitional species, even species found today. Even you must accept that as you have already admitted to accepting that one species can change into another.
Also, today we have tens of millions of fossils that have been unearthed and categorized. We have defined 250,000 distinct fossilized species. If true transitional forms existed, we would have at least the same number of transitional species - perhaps far more, given that many changes would have taken place over time.
Creationists try hard to promote the myth that species are distinct entities which suddenly change into a transitional species and then into a new species and that the so called transitional species is somehow unique and identifiable but has never been observed. Clearly you have fallen for their misinformation campaign.
Originally posted by scottishinnzI disagree. Complexity has not been defined in this thread, despite me asking dj2becker to do so several times.
Yes. Neither have intelligence. The amoeba is more complex though.
In my opinion, some rocks are more complex than an amoeba of an equivalent size/weight. The rocks atoms are in a more random configuration and thus contain more information. But as I say, without defining complexity we can not draw a valid conclusion. dj2becker knows however that once complexity is rigorously defined it will show that he has used it with several different and opposing meanings during this thread so he will resist any attempts to agree on a definition.