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Sonship believes that the loving Jesus of John 3:16 has deliberately created and maintains a place of unimaginable horror where he will supernaturally keep billions of people alive and burn them in flames for eternity while he and his angels watch.
If we talk about Jesus and His love, we HAVE to realize that He loves RIGHTEOUSNESS and hates LAWLESSNESS.
" You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You .... etc. etc. (Hebrews 1:9)
Yes I believe that John 3:16 highlights God's love.
But Scripture also says that there is that which God and Christ hates.
The words of Matthew 25:41,46 Divegeester has not demonstrated were not spoken by Jesus Christ.
" ... the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
1.) Something called "the eternal fire" was "prepared". Who prepared it?
2.) The "eternal fire" was prepared for "the devil and his angels". I take this to mean the original purpose of its preparation had the devil and his angels in view.
3. ) Though it was "prepared for the devil and his angels" here some people go to the same destiny.
"Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (v.42)
How else should I interpret that other than these people go to the same destiny that was prepared for the devil and his angels, namely "the eternal fire" (v.41) ?
How much twisting must I do to interpret it to mean the opposite of what it says ?
4.) According to verse 46 the "eternal punishment" is the same as "the eternal fire" of verse 41.
"And these shall go away into eternal punishment ..." (v.46)
How much twisting and gymnastics must one do to comprehend there that "the eternal punishment" of verse 46 is something else besides the "eternal fire" of verse 41?
5. Do heart wrenching emotional appeals CHANGE the logic of understanding that the "eternal fire" of verse 41 must refer to the "eternal punishment" of verse 46 ?
He also believes that this dreadful eternal woe will somehow bring glory to Jesus whilst at the same time provide a warning to beings on other worlds, out there in space.
If Christ has "loved righteousness and hated lawlessness" then which would bring more glory to God -
1.) The triumph of lawlessness ?
2.) The utter and total defeat of lawlessness ?
i would say putting down by Christ in any manner in which He ordains, the hated lawlessness, would bring more glory to God.
The manner in which God wills to put the hated lawlessness down is up to Him.
He did not seek our permission or advice or approval on this.
My dislike of liking of God's manner of putting down the hated lawlessness doesn't effect His way one way or the other.
And you don't have an issue with this?
As I recall, the last time I checked, Suzianne does not see this matter exactly as I do.
I am at peace with that.
You put more effort into trying to refute this and to malign me which Suzianne ( I am pretty sure ) does not attempt to do. So you get more defense of my understanding on this.
You want to fight about it, and most all the time.
But you do have an issue with other Christians or just other posters challenging him about this erroneous nonsence?
You have not demonstrated erroneous nonsense. You have demonstrated only your disdain for the concept of eternal punishment other than non-existence.
Your dislike of the matter does not constitute is as "erroneous error".
Neither would mine be enough to constitute eternal punishment as "erroneous error".
Our dislike or fondness of revelation doesn't effect the truthfulness of that revelation.
I have to believe some things that I don't like.
I also have to believe some things which I cannot fully understand enough to explain.
Sonship is your buddy isn't he...?
I think you do a fair amount of projecting your own attitudes on to other people.
To my recollection I don't think I can remember any personal messages sent to me from this poster.
I usually count this poster as agreeing with some things I wrote and disagreeing with others.
-Removed-To the problem at hand with interpreting this matter:
Do you think that you care MORE for the saving of sinners than Jesus Christ cares ?
I do not think that it is possible for me to drum up more sympathy for the sinner than that of the Son of God.
We cannot exceed Him either in His love for sinners or His righteousness.
However eloquently you appeal to human sentiments of revulsion at the words of the Bible about eternal punishment I count it impossible that our sympathies could be greater than the love of the Son of God, the innocent and perfect Lamb of God, Who died on the cross for our salvation.
Do you think your concern for people being saved from forever joining the devil and his angels exceeds the concern of Jesus Christ ?
-Removed-And I expect nothing but your ignoring me when I put certain questions to you, as you demonstrate.
If you turn out to be wrong, Satan has said ALL ALONG that God is evil (Genesis 3:4,5) . At that time will you believe that Satan must have been correct about the evil God ?
If not, what will have changed in you by then ?
-Removed-"Yes I do to and I agree with you on some things and vehemently disageee with you on others.
"She gets very very upset when people like me challenge you on your strange beliefs even though she disagrees with you herself. She does this because she is unprincipled and would rather attack the poster challenging you, than challenge you herself.
"She ignored the post that replied to her above, I think it is clear why."
You wouldn't know "unprincipled" if it came up and bit you on the ass.
You need to understand something about me. I do NOT dance to your tune, and for that, you call me "unprincipled".
You routinely charge and harass and endlessly attack posters here who disagree with you, apparently only because they disagree with you. Even Christians.
And THAT is what is unprincipled here. You can't have a normal conversation with people who have the temerity to disagree with you. You chase them hither and yon across this forum relentlessly. In at least one instance, the target of your displeasure had to leave the site because he couldn't take it anymore. And if I have this right, ALL of these people you relentlessly attack are Christians. You don't spend a nanosecond of time confronting atheists.
Yes, I have disagreements with sonship. Despite them, he is one of a very few Christian posters here who truly live their faith. Another is KellyJay, whom you ALSO relentlessly pursue with harassment. I have disagreements with both of them, not to mention JosephW, who I've had a few unkind words with, and he is ANOTHER you attack endlessly. But all three of these CHRISTIANS are some of the most principled Christian posters I have come across on these forums. They give voice and heart to the Word of God. Not lip service.
Yes I have disagreements with all of them. Just how much came to a head recently when I posted a thread about why I think Christians should be liberal in their politics. I never heard the end of it from these posters. But I did NOT decide to make it my life's work to hunt them down and "settle the score" with them. Why you do this (just because they happen to disagree with you, and DARE to tell you they disagree), I do not understand. But if there's any behavior here that is "unprincipled", that is it.
Whether you and the atheists in this forum believe it or not, the end times spoken of in scripture are coming, and coming fast. Christians of every flavor will be persecuted to an extent never before seen on this planet. The only way we will "endure to the end" is in the words of Benjamin Franklin, who said, "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." As Christians, we should not be making enemies of each other, but still, you persist.