The spirituality of money

Originally posted by josephw
1 Timothy 6:6
But godliness with contentment is great gain.

How can you seriously take advice from someone called Tim?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
How can you seriously take advice from someone called Tim?

Timothy doesn't write in the epistle. Paul does TO Timothy.

Get a CLUE wolfgang. Dust off your NT and read sometime.

And where were you when everyone was listening to Timothy Leary in the 60s?

You'll probably iike this video.

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For consideration - What Does the Christian Right Want?

Christ Hedges on "American Fascism".

YouTube

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Originally posted by sonship

I asked Wolfgang59 -

And where were you when everyone was listening to Timothy Leary in the 60s?

Sorry wolfgang59. Just maybe my age is showing and you weren't around to hear the high priest of LSD Tim Leary.

To borrow Nick Jagger's phrase somewhat "Time WAS On My Side."

LOL

Originally posted by sonship
I don't know about that.

Both Liberal and Conservative worldviews are about investment.
One is a philosophy in investing in those poor with a idealistic hope that they WILL turn out to be profitable to the nation.

The other is a philosophy of investing in those who have already proven that they are profitable to the nation.

Liberal ...[text shortened]... can be unsustainable and become a huge bother. If not to that guy, to his grandchildren someday.[/b]

The terms liberal and conservative have become bastardized to the point of unrecognizable futility.

Essentially you have statists and non-statists. You have people who look to government for all their needs and those who don't.

Take the poor, for example. Those that use their own money and time to help the poor are by in large those of various faiths. More specifically, these are people who take their respective faiths seriously and who attend church/synagogue etc routinely.

Conversely, atheists tend to gravitate towards statism. They too feel a duty to help the poor, however, they seek to empower government to take care of the poor for them.

Read 1 Samuel chapter 9 when Israel wanted to appiont a king. God spoke through his servant Samuel and warned the people that they were really rejecting him as their King. He warned them of the inescapable abuses they would suffer with sinful man as king, but they would not listen. So he gave them what they wanted, thus Saul became the first king of Israel.

And so it goes, God never meant for sinful man to rule and reign over us, but when man rejects God, it's all they have.

Originally posted by whodey
The terms liberal and conservative have become bastardized to the point of unrecognizable futility.

Essentially you have statists and non-statists. You have people who look to government for all their needs and those who don't.

Take the poor, for example. Those that use their own money and time to help the poor are by in large those of various faith ...[text shortened]... er meant for sinful man to rule and reign over us, but when man rejects God, it's all they have.

If you use the terms "statist" and "non-statist"...you're a conservative.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
How can you seriously take advice from someone called Tim?

Oh, there are many authoritative Tims throughout history. Such as…

Well, let me think…

Ah yes - Tim the Enchanter from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=4576

There. I think I can call that a QED.

Originally posted by sonship
I asked Wolfgang59 -

And where were you when everyone was listening to Timothy Leary in the 60s?

Sorry wolfgang59. Just maybe my age is showing and you weren't around to hear the high priest of LSD Tim Leary.

To borrow Nick Jagger's phrase somewhat "Time WAS On My Side."

LOL

Not heard of Nick Jagger nor Timothy Leary.

Originally posted by Soothfast
Oh, there are many authoritative Tims throughout history.
Ah yes - Tim the Enchanter from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

You got me there!!

“There are some who call me …...... Tim”

LOL

Originally posted by whodey
Take the poor, for example. Those that use their own money and time to help the poor are by in large those of various faiths. More specifically, these are people who take their respective faiths seriously and who attend church/synagogue etc routinely.

In your country everyone is 'by and large those of various faiths'. Do you have any evidence that such people are statistically more likely to be charitably active?
I know that amoungst theists, those who attend Church regularly tend to be more charitably active - but that's not the same thing.

Originally posted by whodey
Essentially you have statists and non-statists. You have people who look to government for all their needs and those who don't.

By your own definition then there would be no such thing as a "statist" except, perhaps, for someone in a coma, without any friends or family, in a government-run hospital.

Aside from that scenario or something similar (like an orphaned baby in an incubator or a prisoner in solitary confinement etc.), I think we can reasonably say that "those who don't [...] look to government for all their needs", i.e. "non-statists", would be everyone on earth.

Therefore, by your own definition, and with the kind of relatively rare exceptions described above, there are no "statists" and only "non-statists" in the world.

As the self-existing One, God is the reality of every positive thing. The Gospel of John reveals that He is all we need: life, light, food, drink, pasture, the way.

It is necessary that we know God as the One who is. Heaven and earth may pass away, but God is. Are you discouraged by your weaknesses? One day your weaknesses will cease to exist, but God will still be. Do not believe in anything other than God. Do not believe either in your weakness or in your strength, for both your weakness and your strength will pass away. However, when they are gone, God will continue to be the One who is. According to my experience, I can testify that both riches and poverty pass away, but God abides. Whether we are rich or poor, God is. We should not even put our confidence in the wife or husband the Lord has given us. Even if we suffer the loss of wife or husband, God will yet be. At such a time, we must believe in Him as the ever-existing One. If we know God as the One who is, we shall be greatly encouraged, especially during difficult times.

From The Life Study of Exodus Message #6, W. Lee

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Originally posted by FMF
By your own definition then there would be no such thing as a "statist" except, perhaps, for someone in a coma, without any friends or family, in a government-run hospital.

Aside from that scenario or something similar (like an orphaned baby in an incubator or a prisoner in solitary confinement etc.), I think we can reasonably say that [b]"those who don't [. ...[text shortened]... y rare exceptions described above, there are no "statists" and only "non-statists" in the world.

Not so.

Again, if yoiu look to government for to fix all of lifes problems you are a statist.

This was driven home to me by a rally Glenn Beck had in Washington. It was a rally to "seek God" and pray for the country. He did it where MLK spoke years before. I then remember the lefties coming out like Al Sharpton who calls himself a "reverend". He stated something to the effect, "Well that is all well and good, but how will the government help these people?"

That is the particular illness to which I refer.

However, Jesus was the best example. He never sought political agitation, he never sought public office, he simply presented the kingdom of heaven to his followers with the understanding that his kingdom was not of this world, nor could ever be of this world system.

Both try to tackle the ills of free will because we all make bad decisions. Jesus simply tries to tackle the problem on an individual basis by changing the hearts of people rather than building more prisons, making more laws, and gravitating towards a police state.

Originally posted by twhitehead
In your country everyone is 'by and large those of various faiths'. Do you have any evidence that such people are statistically more likely to be charitably active?
I know that amoungst theists, those who attend Church regularly tend to be more charitably active - but that's not the same thing.

These articles are easy to find.

http://philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/143273/

Giving ones time and money to the poor is much more efficient than giving it to some bureaucrat who will then take tax money and give a much smaller percentage of it to those in need.

The Amish are perhaps the best example of this. They take care of their own. There world is built around their faith and God, it is the glue that holds them together. But perhaps one of the most important factors of the Amish is that they are all given a choice as to whether or not to remain Amish. Without this choice, they would just eventually become a cookie cutter statist.

Conversely, the statist gives no such freedom, for their ideas are so good they are compulsary for all. In fact, their ideas are just so great they don't even need God. They simply tax the hell out of people, turn a blind eye to the massive corruption and waste within the system, and create massive pots of money to throw at everything in an effort to control everything. Because there are never ending problems within society, there is a never ending expansion of government and ever rising debt. They create a society where people are disenfranchised, alone, powerless, living off the crumbs under the table like a rabid dog without purpose or hope. And as their freedoms wane, they discover that they are slowly returning to the plantation. A return to slavery is the natural state of the statist.

Interestingly, the Bible makes reference to the fact that slavery = sin. In fact, Jesus said that he came to break the cycle. However, what I find most distressing are the warnings we have in Revelation. At some point, the state will become so intrusive, that you cannot function within society without being branded like cattle. You will not be able to buy or sell without being branded. It will be the ultimate control, more than likely involving the ability to monitor your every move and listen to your every word.

Originally posted by whodey
Again, if yoiu look to government for to fix all of lifes problems you are a statist.

Nobody looks to government to "fix all of life's problems". You're so intent on loading up your definition with facetiousness and hyperbole, you are just babbling.