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    07 Sep '14 05:013 edits
    Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

    12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

    16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youa this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

    The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost."

    ***************************

    Accepting that the spirit is the spirit of God aka the spirit of Christ (although there will be contention around that particular nuance), and accepting that the Bride is the Bride of Christ, the church. Then to whom is the Bride saying "come"?

    When Jesus says he will reward each according to what they have done, does this mean those to who he is saying come? Can more come to him than are already in the Bride?

    Does this mean that the opposite of the "reward". is eternal torture in flames? [No!] Or is this further revelation that there is:

    - the Bride of the groom (the church)
    - the friends of the groom (john 3:29) other people who will be with the Bride and the Groom?

    Bearing in mind that Christ died once and for ALL, (1 peter 3:18, Romans 6:10, Hebrews 9:28) and that many many times throughout the bible is states "mercy triumphs over judgement" -- does this add anything to your view of the atonement, salvation, judgement, hell etc?

    Thoughts.

    Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 11:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

    12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of li ...[text shortened]... tc?

    Thoughts.

    Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.
    What version is that. The KJV reads:

    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:12-17 KJV)
  3. Joined
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    07 Sep '14 12:03
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What version is that. The KJV reads:

    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [b]Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the cit ...[text shortened]... come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:12-17 KJV)
    NIV I think it was.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 12:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

    12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of li ...[text shortened]... tc?

    Thoughts.

    Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.
    Here the Bride of Christ appears to be the New Jerusalem:

    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ...... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Revelation 21:2-10 KJV)
  5. Joined
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    07 Sep '14 12:06
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here the Bride of Christ appears to be the New Jerusalem:

    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ...... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee ...[text shortened]... great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Revelation 21:2-10 KJV)
    Any thoughts on the points I made in the OP?
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 12:081 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

    12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of li ...[text shortened]... tc?

    Thoughts.

    Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.
    My answer to your last question is that all people except a handful are sinners and in need of the mercy of God. The Bible speaks of people who are perfect before God and I have no doubt that there are such people who are able to resist all kinds of sin and live righteously as Christ did.

    However the mercy of Christ will allow others to enter. How will Christ pick and choose those who deserve his mercy? The Bible says it clearly over and over but it is taboo to speak of such things in a Christian environment. Strangely atheists are more likely to accept this :
    - good works
    - brotherly love
    - living righteously
    - resisting temptation and sin
    - charity
    - you know the rest its in your Revelation 22 quote and Rev 21 as well.
  7. Joined
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    07 Sep '14 12:141 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The Bible speaks of people who are perfect before God and I have no doubt that there are such people who are able to resist all kinds of sin and live righteously as Christ did.
    But the Bible says in Jeremiah:

    "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?"

    And also, in Romans:

    "ALL have sinned and fallen short..."

    So you cannot be correct here can you?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 12:19
    Originally posted by divegeester
    But the Bible says on Jeremiah

    "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?"

    And also, in Romans:

    [b]"ALL
    have sinned and fallen short."

    So you cannot be correct here can you?[/b]
    The Bible also speaks of some who are perfect. Revelation refers to 144,000 who are also clean and pure. Why cant both types exist?
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    07 Sep '14 12:19
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The Bible also speaks of some who are perfect. Revelation refers to 144,000 who are also clean and pure. Why cant both types exist?
    What is about the word "ALL" that you have trouble comprehending?
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 12:26
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What is about the word "ALL" that you have trouble comprehending?
    Do you know that there are many words in the Bible that have a different meaning from what you think it is?

    Here are a few:

    for ever and ever / eternal / everlasting - really means for an era or period
    ALL the world - really means part of the world


    So be careful about taking words like ALL literally.
  11. Joined
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    07 Sep '14 12:42
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Do you know that there are many words in the Bible that have a different meaning from what you think it is?

    Here are a few:

    for ever and ever / eternal / everlasting - really means for an era or period
    ALL the world - really means part of the world


    So be careful about taking words like ALL literally.
    I'm glad you're here with to correct the scriptures I provided.

    I never realised that when Paul said "all have fallen short...", what he actually meant was "most have fallen short except those who do works, you guys are perfect and don't need redemption"
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    07 Sep '14 12:43
    An other posters have a thought on the OP?
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Sep '14 12:46
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I'm glad you're here with to correct the scriptures I provided.

    I never realised that when Paul said "all have fallen short...", what he actually meant was "most have fallen short except those who do works, you guys are perfect and don't need redemption"
    Its time I stop talking to you. Im tired of your bull.
    Im going to place you in Suzianne's category.
    I never reply to her posts so you are now in that group.
    Have a nice life pal.
  14. Standard memberredbadger
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    07 Sep '14 13:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Its time I stop talking to you. Im tired of your bull.
    Im going to place you in Suzianne's category.
    I never reply to her posts so you are now in that group.
    Have a nice life pal.
    wise choice he is an ass
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Sep '14 15:08
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Do you know that there are many words in the Bible that have a different meaning from what you think it is?

    Here are a few:

    for ever and ever / eternal / everlasting - really means for an era or period
    ALL the world - really means part of the world


    So be careful about taking words like ALL literally.
    This has got to be one of the more stupid things you've said in this forum.

    You get on your little soapbox about good works claiming all these Bible passages and you even ask others "Where is that in the Bible?" as if the Bible itself is your God, and then you can actually say something like this? If you do actually believe what you said here, then you're one of the bigger hypocrites in this thread.
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