The Sprit and the Bride

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its time I stop talking to you. Im tired of your bull.
Im going to place you in Suzianne's category.
I never reply to her posts so you are now in that group.
Have a nice life pal.

You never reply to me, because you cannot.

You can't risk having your hypocritical posts shattered like the chaff they are.

BTW, how we doing on those commandments? Still not fulfilling them all, like you insist others should?

Originally posted by redbadger
wise choice he is an ass

Why do you even post here? Is it just to troll?

Lord knows you're not interested in being saved.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Why do you even post here? Is it just to troll?

Lord knows you're not interested in being saved.

I lost my faith when I got molested by a catholic priest.

Originally posted by divegeester
Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of li ...[text shortened]... tc?

Thoughts.

Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.

The Bride is the body of the church. By 'church' here, I mean those whom Christ considers 'his'. So the Bride and Christ are speaking to those who are not 'his' yet.

As to eternal torture, no, I don't believe that. I've already gone round with others here over that.

Yes, Jesus says he will reward each according to what they have done. What the grognards like Rajk forget is that this also means those who have made the decision to follow Christ. Just doing good works without committing to Christ will not earn anyone a place in New Jerusalem. You must consider yourself as 'belonging to Christ' before He will.

He stands at the door and knocks. You must open the door and let Him in (accept His sacrifice for you) before anything else. Putting anything else before Christ doesn't do this for you, in fact, it hinders you greatly.

And no, this bit of scripture doesn't change anything for me. I was already aware of it and it already forms part of my personal 'canon' or doctrine.

Originally posted by redbadger
I lost my faith when I got molested by a catholic priest.

Then you haven't heard a word I've said in this forum about "evil men hiding behind religion". You cannot blame religion for something like this. Everything that people blame on religion should rightly be laid at the feet of evil men. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the molestation of boys by priests, all of it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Then you haven't heard a word I've said in this forum about "evil men hiding behind religion". You cannot blame religion for something like this. Everything that people blame on religion should rightly be laid at the feet of evil men. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the molestation of boys by priests, all of it.

if a god existed boys and girls would never be hurt or molested the whole concept of religion or faith is flawed. I don't choose to disbelieve there is nothing to believe in.

Originally posted by redbadger
if a god existed boys and girls would never be hurt or molested the whole concept of religion or faith is flawed. I don't choose to disbelieve there is nothing to believe in.

It is not the religion or faith that is flawed, it is men. And some of those men are evil. There are plenty of priests who do not molest boys. Far more than do. Those that do are simply evil and should be removed from the church and jailed.

How you got this far in life without seeing this is unknown to me. But I guess it's just easier to hate everything about it without discernment.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is not the religion or faith that is flawed, it is men. And some of those men are evil. There are plenty of priests who do not molest boys. Far more than do. Those that do are simply evil and should be removed from the church and jailed.

How you got this far in life without seeing this is unknown to me. But I guess it's just easier to hate everything about it without discernment.

I married a good Catholic girl raised 2 children both catholic(my wives choice) 7 grandkids later I hold no hatred I let people believe what they will.but if there is a light its never shone on me.

Originally posted by divegeester
Revelation of Jesus Christ 22: Jesus is speaking from verse 12.

12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of li ...[text shortened]... tc?

Thoughts.

Edit: incidentally the "waters of life" are as symbolic as the tree of life.

In an obvious attempt to get this thread back on track [such as it is], here is more on where I'm going with this:

- I do not accept that there will not be any human souls in hell
- I suspect that those who die without knowing Christ will be judged on their conscience and works assosiated with it. They are part of the group to whom the "spirit and the Bride say come..."
- I think Christ paid the price for ALL sin however...
- Eternal life and being part of the "bride" is something to be received by faith. Those who enter in will be part of the Bride but all will recieve their reward according to their works and obedience (reward, not life or death)
- the "second death" is for those who reject Christ outright and defy the call to the end and fail at the judgement based on faith, works everything. It is NOT eternal torture, just death.

I don't claim any of this as fact, but I suspect something like this to represent the out working of the scriptures we read in context of the merciful God we know.

Let the hate begin...

😀

Originally posted by divegeester
In an obvious attempt to get this thread back on track [such as it is], here is more on where I'm going with this:

- I do not accept that there will not be any human souls in hell
- I suspect that those who die without knowing Christ will be judged on their conscience and works assosiated with it. They are part of the group to whom the "spirit and th ...[text shortened]... f the scriptures we read in context of the merciful God we know.

Let the hate begin...

😀

I'm pretty much in the same school of thought as you, except I believe that those who die with no knowledge of Christ will be taught, and then asked to choose. There is no "alternate salvation". The only way to the Father is through the Son. At least this is the path for Gentiles.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm pretty much in the same school of thought as you, except I believe that those who die with no knowledge of Christ will be taught, and then asked to choose. There is no "alternate salvation". The only way to the Father is through the Son. At least this is the path for Gentiles.

I mistyped my first point which should have read: I do not accept that there will be any human beings in hell.

This concept of being fried for eternity if you don't accept the loving god who will "fry you for eternity if you don't accept him", is medieval, nonsensical religious fear-mongering. I'm wondering if it is linked more to the religious right-wing of America as I suspect UK Christians don't believe this. Not sure though - recently my understanding of the established Christian mind-set has been turned upside down.

Originally posted by divegeester
I mistyped my first point which should have read: I do not accept that there will be any human beings in hell.

This concept of being fried for eternity if you don't accept the loving god who will "fry you for eternity if you don't accept him", is medieval, nonsensical religious fear-mongering. I'm wondering if it is linked more to the religious right- ...[text shortened]... h - recently my understanding of the established Christian mind-set has been turned upside down.

Tell me something. If you succeed in causing all Christians to blush, lower their heads in shame, and feel terrible for believing what Jesus said about eternal punishment (ie. Mattew 25:41,46), will that make it not true ?

Jesus said of His Father that He was righteous -

"Righteous Father, though the world has not known You, yet I have known You, ... " (John 17:25)

How do you think the Christians' feeling of embarrassment in believing in God's eternal punishment will make the matter not exist ?

Originally posted by sonship
Tell me something. If you succeed in causing all Christians to blush, lower their heads in shame, and feel terrible for believing what Jesus said about eternal punishment [b](ie. Mattew 25:41,46), will that make it not true ?

Jesus said of His Father that He was righteous -

[quote] "Righteous Father, though the world has not known ...[text shortened]... eling of embarrassment in believing in God's eternal punishment will make the matter not exist ?

You're free to hold to your terroist view of god of course; I choose not to believe it. Tell me, if I refuse to believe it and tell people I refuse to believe it and explain why - will god send me to hell to burn for all eternity?

PS I'm not sorry for "making you blush and hang your head in shame".

Originally posted by divegeester

You're free to hold to your terroist view of god of course;

Instead of retorting this you should show that in the Greek text of the NT and especially coming out of the mouth of Jesus, there is no teaching of eternal punishment.

A lazy ad hom simply is not that impressive.
Give me your argument that Jesus did not speak of eternal punishment.

Then whether I love the doctrine or loath the doctrine, it makes no difference. The point is is it biblical.

I choose not to believe it. Tell me, if I refuse to believe it and tell people I refuse to believe it and explain why - will god send me to hell to burn for all eternity?

I don't see why. You may be disciplined though if because of your word some hearers of the Gospel decided not to receive the Savior.

If you are saved but you deliberately reduced the sense of urgency from Christ's gospel, to the undoing of some seeking sinner, you may have to answer to that at the beginning of the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.

I would hasten to add that if someone falsely mis-portrayed a caricature of God's nature also to the discouragement of some sinner, he ALSO might have to account for that before Christ.

Remember how God did not allow Moses to enter into the land of Canaan because he failed to sanctify God before the people ? God told Moses to speak to the rock to let the water flow. But in anger Moses struck the rock twice.

God honored His deputy authority and let the water flow. But then He took Moses aside, scolding him for giving the people a misrepresentation of God's attitude. For that God forbade Moses the right to enter into the Good Land.

For a deputy authority of God to misrepresent His attitude can be a serious matter.

PS I'm not sorry for "making you blush and hang your head in shame".

I did not say that you did make me feel ashamed. It seems that your efforts are attempting to accomplish accusation against the Christian conscience for believing what is there in the Bible.

My feeling of preference or disdain about any truth coming from the Word of God have no effect on it. Neither does your exercise to "choose" to accept this or "reject" the revelation have any effect whatsoever on its truthfulness.

Prove to us Jesus Christ never uttered such a concept of eternal punishment.

Now if I may comment on one question of your OP.

Since coming into the Bride is a gradual process it is understandable that the call of the Spirit and the Bride to come is given to all those who are IN the gradual process as well.

The believers are BECOMMING the New Jerusalem by way of Christ dispensing His life and nature into them. So while we are on the way, of course we still hear the call of the Spirit and the Bride.

"Let him who hears also say come ..." should include anyone in the church who is in the process of becomming the consummate New Jerusalem.

The same would be true of "And let him who is thirsty come; let him who wills take the water of life freely."

The Apostle Paul was speaking to those who on one level had been reconciled to God because they were members of the church in Corinth. Yet he still said to them "Be reconciled to God" (2 Cor. 5:20)

Originally posted by sonship

You're free to hold to your terroist view of god of course;

Instead of retorting this you should show that in the Greek text of the NT and especially coming out of the mouth of Jesus, there is no teaching of eternal punishment.

A lazy ad hom simply is not that impressive.
Give me your argument that Jesus did not speak of eternal pu ...[text shortened]... of the church in Corinth. Yet he still said to them [b]"Be reconciled to God" (2 Cor. 5:20)[/b]

I've explained my position in this forum many times and you have read it and responded why do you want me to do so again? did you not pay attention last time?

I think it is you who are making a caricature of God and is you who should take care lest you diminish the gospel and the appeal of Christ through this horrendous doctrine. Of course your self image here is one of preacher and your posts reflect that, so I doubt you'll take notice of me as your whole stance here in this is one of rebuke isn't it?

you set God and Christ up as being torturers, a horrendous accusation which would require rock solid unequivocal evidence and it simply doesn't exist. Here is the reasonable doubt:

The passage in Matthew is probably parabolic; Jesus nearly always spoke to the common people in this way. But no, you will insist that it's literal - why? To protect your precious doctrine that sets our Lord up as being worse than the deluded hate filled maniacs who behead people on the internet for being infidels - you do see that it's the same but worse don't you? If you reject Christ I will burn you for eternity in hell - if you reject Allah we will chop your head off - quid pro quo.

The other passages in Revelation you will no doubt lean on are spurious at best in terms of their specific claims and are obviously full of symbolism i.e. is the lake really a lake and is it really full of Brimstone?

I believe in the second death. I do not accept that God will take billions of people many who will not have even heard the gospel and burn them alive for all eternity while (as it says of the beast being thrown in) Christ and his angels watch.

I suggest stop and think about what you believe about our God and actually write it down with the scriptures that support it and see if you still feel so wedded to it.

Read John 3:16 5 or 6 times and then tell me the same God has engineered this hellish eternal torture.