The Trinity conquers Racism

Originally posted by leunammi
Not afraid to admit anything., just not egar to play your game.

No game. It's an important concept that should be understood about the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth. One should never be afraid to shine the light of truth. In fact, one should seek it with all ones heart and with all ones soul and with all ones mind.

Many seem to create rationalizations when they're afraid to admit the truth, so it's not like you don't have a lot of company.

Originally posted by Eladar
Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us


You don't forgive and God won't forgive you.

We wouldn't need to ask God to forgive our sins if we were sinless. That's the point.

Jesus knew we would sin and provided a prayer for it.

Originally posted by chaney3
1 John 1: 8-10

"If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that His word has no place in our hearts".

Also, Jesus taught how one should pray, in the Lord's Prayer......."forgive us our sins".

Human beings sin.

Just so you know, this isn't Jesus either.

Nor does it say that it's impossible for anyone to stop sinning. Read it again. In fact, try reading it in context.

Tell you what. Let me know what you think 1 John 1:5-7 and - even more to the point - 1 John 3:4-10 are saying. Then let me know what you think 1 John 1:8-10 is saying.

1 John 1
5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3
4Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Originally posted by chaney3
We wouldn't need to ask God to forgive our sins if we were sinless. That's the point.

Jesus knew we would sin and provided a prayer for it.

Of course he did. Anyone who would say otherwise is blind or trying to play games.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Just so you know, this isn't Jesus either.

Nor does it say that it's impossible for anyone to stop sinning. Read it again. In fact, try reading it in context.

Tell you what. Let me know what you think 1 John 1:5-7 and - even more to the point - 1 John 3:4-10 are saying. Then let me know what you think 1 John 1:8-10 is saying.

1 John 1
...[text shortened]... hosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Try reading Romans 7. I will quote verse 20

Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


Let those who have eyes see.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Just so you know, this isn't Jesus either.

Nor does it say that it's impossible for anyone to stop sinning. Read it again. In fact, try reading it in context.

Tell you what. Let me know what you think 1 John 1:5-7 and - even more to the point - 1 John 3:4-10 are saying. Then let me know what you think 1 John 1:8-10 is saying.

1 John 1
...[text shortened]... hosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

If Jesus taught that it was possible for a human to live a sin free life, can you please provide those verses.

And even if He did teach that, He also taught that if we do sin, to ask the Father for forgiveness, as in the Lord's Prayer.

What I do NOT think He preached was that a human MUST live a sin free life to enter the Kingdom of God.

So, I am not exactly certain what your point is.

Originally posted by chaney3
If Jesus taught that it was possible for a human to live a sin free life, can you please provide those verses.

And even if He did teach that, He also taught that if we do sin, to ask the Father for forgiveness, as in the Lord's Prayer.

What I do NOT think He preached was that a human MUST live a sin free life to enter the Kingdom of God.

So, I am not exactly certain what your point is.

So, I am not exactly certain what your point is.

Seriously? Okay, I'll try again.

In your prior post, you cited 1 John 1:8-10, ostensibly as evidence that it's impossible for a human to stop committing sin.

Do you understand it isn't Jesus speaking there?

Did you read 1 John 1:5-7 and 1 John 3:4-10?

What do you think that they are saying?

With that in mind what do you think that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]So, I am not exactly certain what your point is.

Seriously? Okay, I'll try again.

In your prior post, you cited 1 John 1:8-10, ostensibly as evidence that it's impossible for a human to stop committing sin.

Do you understand it isn't Jesus speaking there?

Did you read 1 John 1:5-7 and 1 John 3:4-10?

What do you think that they are saying?

With that in mind what do you think that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying?[/b]

If you don't mind, I have shifted the question.

Even if Jesus preached that it IS possible to live a sin free life, He simultaneously preached to ask the Father for forgiveness if we do sin.

So, He may desire for us to be sin free, but does NOT 'crucify' us if we do sin.

Originally posted by chaney3
If you don't mind, I have shifted the question.

Even if Jesus preached that it IS possible to live a sin free life, He simultaneously preached to ask the Father for forgiveness if we do sin.

So, He may desire for us to be sin free, but does NOT 'crucify' us if we do sin.

First I want to make sure that you understand what my point was. In your prior post, you claimed that you didn't understand what it was. You can demonstrate whether or not you understand by answering my questions.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
First I want to make sure that you understand what my point was. In your prior post, you claimed that you didn't understand what it was. You can demonstrate whether or not you understand by answering my questions.

Here is what I meant:

If it is your point to prove that Jesus taught it was possible to live sin free, and you have scripture to prove that, then so be it.

But, that point is secondary to the fact that if we cannot meet that standard, He has also taught us to ask God for forgiveness if we do sin.

Meaning, if you are able to provide that scripture, I would say....okay, you're right, Jesus taught that it was 'possible' to live a sin free life....but, highly 'improbable'. And I think He knows that.

Originally posted by chaney3
Here is what I meant:

If it is your point to prove that Jesus taught it was possible to live sin free, and you have scripture to prove that, then so be it.

But, that point is secondary to the fact that if we cannot meet that standard, He has also taught us to ask God for forgiveness if we do sin.

Meaning, if you are able to provide that scripture, ...[text shortened]... t was 'possible' to live a sin free life....but, highly 'improbable'. And I think He knows that.

You seem to have completely lost the context of our discussion.

These are the questions that I was referring to in my prior post:

In your prior post, you cited 1 John 1:8-10, ostensibly as evidence that it's impossible for a human to stop committing sin.

Do you understand it isn't Jesus speaking there?

Did you read 1 John 1:5-7 and 1 John 3:4-10?

What do you think that they are saying?

With that in mind what do you think that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying?

Any chance that you'll actually address them?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You seem to have completely lost the context of our discussion.

These are the questions that I was referring to in my prior post:

In your prior post, you cited 1 John 1:8-10, ostensibly as evidence that it's impossible for a human to stop committing sin.

Do you understand it isn't Jesus speaking there?

Did you read 1 John 1:5-7 and 1 Jo ...[text shortened]... that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying?

Any chance that you'll actually address them?

You are missing my point:

If Jesus did teach that it was possible to live sin free, it was NOT the totality of His message. If it was, He would have said it across the board, with NO reason to include sin and forgiveness in the Lord's Prayer.

Living a sin free life was not the only thing He taught.

So, even if I said...you are right, it doesn't matter, because if I do sin, I ask for forgiveness, because Jesus taught that ALSO.

Originally posted by chaney3
You are missing my point:

If Jesus did teach that it was possible to live sin free, it was NOT the totality of His message. If it was, He would have said it across the board, with NO reason to include sin and forgiveness in the Lord's Prayer.

Living a sin free life was not the only thing He taught.

So, even if I said...you are right, it doesn't matter, because if I do sin, I ask for forgiveness, because Jesus taught that ALSO.

Actually I'm choosing to ignore your "point" until you answer those questions.

Ostensibly you believed you had a point with the first two passages that you cited. With your ongoing refusal to actually address the content of my responses, I don't know what you understand and don't understand.

I can't see continuing to address your points when, thus far, you've refused to address my posts in a meaningful manner. I should go to the trouble of addressing your "points", so that you can continue to ignore mine? Why would anyone choose to do that?

So once again, these are the questions that I was referring to in my prior post:

In your prior post, you cited 1 John 1:8-10, ostensibly as evidence that it's impossible for a human to stop committing sin.

Do you understand it isn't Jesus speaking there?

Did you read 1 John 1:5-7 and 1 John 3:4-10?

What do you think that they are saying?

With that in mind what do you think that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying?

Any chance that you'll actually address them?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Actually I'm choosing to ignore your "point" until you answer those questions.

Ostensibly you believe you had a point with the first two passages that you cited. With your ongoing refusal to actually address the content of my posts, I don't know what you understand and don't understand.

I can't see continuing to address your points when, thus far, ...[text shortened]... that 1 John 1:8-10 is actually saying? [/quote]

Any chance that you'll actually address them?

Okay.

I understand that 1 John is not Jesus speaking.

In chapter 1, it states that we sin and are sinners. In chapter 3, it states that we are not to sin.

Jesus, as you say, preached for us not to sin, yet provided a 'cure' for what to do if we do sin.

My summary: it is all confusing, with contradictions.

Now, this is my effort to address your questions, if it is sufficient, we can continue. If not, then so be it.

But keep in mind, I am not attempting to find a Biblical loophole so I can continue to sin. I am well aware that Jesus made the comment "Go, and sin no more", and I'm not sure if He meant all sin, or a specific sin for each individual that leads them to continual darkness.

Originally posted by chaney3
Okay.

I understand that 1 John is not Jesus speaking.

In chapter 1, it states that we sin and are sinners. In chapter 3, it states that we are not to sin.

Jesus, as you say, preached for us not to sin, yet provided a 'cure' for what to do if we do sin.

My summary: it is all confusing, with contradictions.

Now, this is my effort to address you ...[text shortened]... f He meant all sin, or a specific sin for each individual that leads them to continual darkness.

Tell you what. Let's take one passage at a time. I'll narrow it down to the text that is most pertinent to our discussion:

1 John 3
4Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
6Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
8He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning...
9Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you honestly think that all that is being said there is "we are not to sin"? If not, what all do you think is being said?