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@sonship saidI care about fellow human beings, irrespective of faith (or lack thereof). Is that not sufficient?
Does Ghost-of-Duke care about the brother and sister Christians in Protestantism or Catholicism ?
No. He cares only about his own atheistic skin.
Witness Lee's P books ( a sample )
Parts of Man, The
Passover, The
Path of Our Growth in Life, The
Perfecting of the Saints and the Building Up of the Body of Christ, The
Perfecting of the Saints an ...[text shortened]... pose of God's Salvation, The
Pursuit of a Christian, The
Check www.ministrybooks.org
Please explain why Christians in an organization of Satan cannot be described (by me) as Satanic Christians?
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21 Jun 19
1 edit
Please explain why Christians in an organization of Satan cannot be described (by me) as Satanic Christians?
You can describe them any way you wish.
My concern in this thread is only with what you try to stuff into the mouth of another man. In this case Witness Lee.
So you couldn't produce your quote.
Blush.
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21 Jun 19
@sonship saidCurious that you chose to edit out my first sentence, 'I care about fellow human beings, irrespective of faith (or lack thereof). Is that not sufficient?'
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Please explain why Christians in an organization of Satan cannot be described (by me) as Satanic Christians?
You can describe them any way you wish.
My concern in this thread is only with what you try to stuff into the mouth of another man. In this case Witness Lee.
So you couldn't produce your quote.
Blush.
Was that too humbling for you to acknowledge?
Blush.
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Curious that you chose to edit out my first sentence, 'I care about fellow human beings, irrespective of faith (or lack thereof). Is that not sufficient?'
It is curious to me how a paranoid person can seem to have a "GOTCHA" incident of which I am basically unaware.
I copied from his paragraph what I wanted to comment on.
What am I doing which everybody else here doesn't often do ? ...
Ie. SELECT which part of a post one wishes to address.
Was that too humbling for you to acknowledge?
No.
So let me go back, take a look at your "Aha, Gotcha!" omitted words to give you some kind of comment.
So I quoted what I wanted to comment on. And this you now wish me to comment on ? Okay.
Before you continue with your alphabetical spamming of the thread (clearly to hide the embarrassment within) why did Lee say Catholics and the like were in an organization of Satan? Did he believe 'Satanic Christians' were still destined to the eternal New Jerusalem as God's final salvation?
1.) Before you continue with your alphabetical spamming of the thread (clearly to hide the embarrassment within)
Clearly to hide embarrassment within ??
I am not hiding embarrassment within.
Next?
2.) why did Lee say Catholics and the like were in an organization of Satan?
Anyone else interested what I discussed about Roman Catholicism should start from the top of the thread and do the work of reading through the discussion.
Being dissatisfied with what one wrote does not MANDATE the one disagreed with has to repeat his labors again.
Next?
3.) Did he believe 'Satanic Christians' were still destined to the eternal New Jerusalem as God's final salvation?
At this point I think I ASKED Ghost for verification of what the question ASSUMES as true, that Lee referred to "Satanic Christians". Ghost didn't produce the quote, backpeddled as far as I am concerned, and asked what is wrong with HIM (Ghost) using the phrase "Satanic Christians".
It is irrelevant to me his phrase he wants to use. I asked if Witness Lee said it, please show me. He didn't. I therefore assume he imagined that Lee said it.
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21 Jun 19
@sonship saidWhere did I claim Lee had used the words 'Satanic Christians.' Why are you asking me to verify a quote I never attributed to him? How very odd.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Curious that you chose to edit out my first sentence, 'I care about fellow human beings, irrespective of faith (or lack thereof). Is that not sufficient?'
It is curious to me how a paranoid person can seem to have a "GOTCHA" incident of which I am basically unaware.
I copied from his paragraph what I wanted to comment on.
What a ...[text shortened]... f Witness Lee said it, please show me. He didn't. I therefore assume he imagined that Lee said it.
Now who's being paranoid? As I have posted a number of times, Lee spoke of Christians being in an organization of Satan. It is me who extrapolated that Christians in an organization of Satan are 'Satanic Christians' and asked you to explain why that wasn't the case. (Which you failed to do).
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Where did I claim Lee had used the words 'Satanic Christians.' Why are you asking me to verify a quote I never attributed to him? How very odd.
Now who's being paranoid? As I have posted a number of times, Lee spoke of Christians being in an organization of Satan. It is me who extrapolated that Christians in an organization of Satan are 'Satanic Christians' and asked you to explain why that wasn't the case. (Which you failed to do).
That is how I understood this sentence.
Did he believe 'Satanic Christians' were still destined to the eternal New Jerusalem as God's final salvation?
I think most readers would regard you as saying Witness Lee wrote of 'Satanic Christians' .
If there is a misunderstanding that that is what you were saying, take a moment next time to be sure you are not giving GROUND for misunderstanding.
You may notice how many times I edit my posts. One reason is to not invite misunderstanding. Disagreement I know is coming. I try not to invite misunderstanding.
And when I do that often people like you complain of verbosity and being bored to have to read so much.
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It is me who extrapolated that Christians in an organization of Satan are 'Satanic Christians' and asked you to explain why that wasn't the case. (Which you failed to do).
Though I discussed the parables of Matthew 13 and the passages about "Come out of her My people" in Revelation 18 they apparently made no impression on you.
I discussed how the evil spirit infiltrated religion to make the whole thing like leavened bread. You didn't like that I guess.
Now you are asking me to RE-ARGUE. I don't think I will by way of repetition right now present those matters again.
Interested readers will have to do the work of reading through the thread and noticing some of the things written about the parables of Matthew 13.
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21 Jun 19
2 edits
Ghost,
I think the only thing I wish to establish today is that those meeting with Catholic churches and Protestant churches will be edified, I think, with the loving yet sometimes frank fellowship they get from Witness Lee.
I think he CARED [edited] for their state much more than an ATHEIST like you who postures that your sense of tolerance cares. Behind your complaint raising tolerance as an issue, I don't think you really CARE about the Protestant churches or Catholic church Christians.
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22 Jun 19
@sonship saidNo just you.
I think most readers would regard you as saying Witness Lee wrote of 'Satanic Christians' .
Again, the quote I have given a number of times has Lee speaking of Christians being in an organization of Satan. Why is 'me' describing such people as Satanic Christians not reasonable?
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22 Jun 19
@sonship
A reminder of the only quote I have attributed to Lee in regards to his Satan claim:
'The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This...is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the building of the genuine church is being accomplished...Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'
Happy to clarify.
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22 Jun 19
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
It has been quite clarified that you don't really know anything about what you're talking about.
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Again, the quote I have given a number of times has Lee speaking of Christians being in an organization of Satan. Why is 'me' describing such people as Satanic Christians not reasonable?
The New Testament says that THE WHOLE WORLD ... lies in the evil one. I told you that before.
We know that we are of God and the whole world lies in the evil one. (1 John 5:19)
So isolating quotes as you do is not portraying the depth of the problem or the degrees to which the worldly entities can come under the influence of God's enemy.
I pointed out I am sure above that the whole nation of Israel was carried away captive to the idol worshipping kingdom of Babylon. Yet few in the Old Testament could match the spirituality and level of revelation of the prophet Daniel.
Was Daniel and his three Hebrew companions in the corrupted system? Yes. But were they somehow preserved by God, useful to God, being led to a good degree BY God? Yes they were.
So laying hold of one thing said and failing to acknowledge the larger truth, the fuller picture, doesn't achieve the effect you'd like to discredit Witness Lee.
Lee's note in the Recovery Version NT on 1 John 5:19 has some helpful insight. (Some editing in brackets for clarification is mine).
[19(1) Lit, out from. Since we have been begotten of God, we are out of Him, out from Him, possessing His life and partaking of His nature. By this we are separated unto God, from the satanic world, which lies in the evil one.
19(2) The whole world comprises the satanic world system (2:15 and note 2) and the people of the world, the fallen human race (4:1 and note 4).
19(3) [lies in the evil one] I.e remains passively in the sphere of the evil one's influence, under his usurpation and manipulation. While the believers are living and moving actively by the life of God, the whole world (especially the people of the world) is lying passively under the usurping and manipulating hand of Satan, the evil one.
19(4) [the evil one] Gk. poneros (differing from kakos, which refers to an essentially worthless and wicked character, and differeingas well from sapros, which indicates worthlessness and corruption, degeneracy from original virtue), pernicious, harmfully evil, affecting and influencing others to be evil and vicious. Such an evil one is Satan the Devil, in whom the whole world lies.
The church is an organic living body governed by the life of God within her. There is a battle raging over the centuries that the evil one in whom the whole world lies, would seek to infiltrate the church and morph it into a worldly organization.
This is akin to the Israelites being carried away from the promised land into the idolatrous worldly empire of Babylon from which they needed to be recovered.
Witness Lee and others have sounded the trumpet of recovery from the overly worldly influenced religion. His was genuine though frank. And he was heard by believers throughout the world that we needed to come out from under the influence of the evil one in his subtle attempt to morph the church into a great worldly organization that does not need the inflow of God's life to exist.
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@sonship
Why did Lee single out Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism as being organizations of Satan? And doesn't that concern you?!
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
This has been discussed. The symbolism of the seven churches as stages of church history has been spoken to. And Christ's words on "the synagogue of Satan" I believe I spoke to. The footnotes to Revelation 2,3 are available in the Recovery Version.
This seeming concern comes from the man who doesn't believe the exodus even happened.
Such a major cornerstone event of the entire Judeo - Christian tradition you dismiss as a lie and turn around and acted concerned for the traditions.
Your insult for participants in Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism is far greater. At least Witness Lee recognizes the elements of historical truth at the foundations of these three great traditions.
It is pretty evident that you intend not to understand Lee's negative or positive comments about the three ISMs. Admit it. You are only interested in the slander value of harping on a few isolated remarks furnished by your handy critics.
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23 Jun 19
Why did Lee single out Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism as being organizations of Satan? And doesn't that concern you?!
Ghost comes with crocodile tears about the three ISMs of organized religion. He holds the cornerstone event, the Exodus, foundational to all three religious systems as a lying conspiracy having never occurred in world history.