Originally posted by stokerI was about to criticise this post but then thought it might be a little rude for an atheist to hijack a thread directed at theists so early on .
if i could explain i would but in my life i belive things have happened to confirm my faith, and reading the bible has given me a guidence in my life, its not blind faith tho i questioned a lot in my growth of years, but in the same time grew with faith. best answer ive got tho it is poor
I'm biting my lip though!
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by stokerI don't know why you think it is a poor explanation. It seems quite reasonable to me and is not an uncommon explanation.
if i could explain i would but in my life i belive things have happened to confirm my faith, and reading the bible has given me a guidence in my life, its not blind faith tho i questioned a lot in my growth of years, but in the same time grew with faith. best answer ive got tho it is poor
What would you say about someone of a different faith who has had similar 'faith confirming experiences'? Do you believe that such people:
1. Don't exist.
2. Didn't experience it to the extent you have.
3. Failed to interpret their experiences correctly.
4. You don't know.
5. The devil is playing mind games with them.
6. what else.
If you met a person of another faith who had experienced even more 'faith confirming' experiences than you, would you consider doubting your own faith?
If you tried praying to another God, and experienced the same things, would you change your God?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadI have a few questions too:
I don't know why you think it is a poor explanation. It seems quite reasonable to me and is not an uncommon explanation.
What would you say about someone of a different faith who has had similar 'faith confirming experiences'? Do you believe that such people:
1. Don't exist.
2. Didn't experience it to the extent you have.
3. Failed to interpret thei ried praying to another God, and experienced the same things, would you change your God?
If Jesus is Who He taught He was - the Son of God, do you believe that:
1.) Everyone in the world would believe and no one would doubt ?
2.) Even His enemies would admit that He was that ?
3.) All Who believe in Him would never have any doubts ?
4.) There would be no other faiths or beliefs on the earth ?
5.) All Christians would be instantaneously perfect the second they believed in Christ ?
6.) All those who did not believe would never try to utilize His name for their own purposes ?
7.) There would be a mathematical formula published which scientifically demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt that He was Who He said He was ?
8.) Nothing bad would ever be associated with the name "Christian" ?
9.) Heavenly lightening would instantly strike people down the moment anyone disagreed ?
10.) There would be constant noise from the sky as God individually talked to billions of people everyday that the Bible is true ?
11.) God would, on demand, supply whatever answers to science questions any scientist had about anything, the moment he or she asked?
12.) The second He set foot on the earth everything would be perfect?
Originally posted by jaywillI think I see your point, although it's kind of off topic.
I have a few questions too:
If Jesus is Who He taught He was - the Son of God, do you believe that:
1.) Everyone in the world would believe and no one would doubt ?
2.) Even His enemies would admit that He was that ?
3.) All Who believe in Him would never have any doubts ?
4.) There would be no other faiths or beliefs on the ...[text shortened]... ent he or she asked?
12.) The second He set foot on the earth everything would be perfect?
Do you agree that there are Muslims all over the world who believe just as strongly as you do that their faith is not only proper, but also the correct faith to the exclusion to all others? What makes them wrong, and you right? How do you know?
Originally posted by TheSkipperWhat you have to think about first is this. If God is real then he's going to have an awful lot to say about truth , lies etc and he's also going to be quite clear, definite and exclusive. Jesus clearly said he was the way and that there would be many who would lead us astray. He also was quite exclusive and definite about himself.
I think I see your point, although it's kind of off topic.
Do you agree that there are Muslims all over the world who believe just as strongly as you do that their faith is not only proper, but also the correct faith to the exclusion to all others? What makes them wrong, and you right? How do you know?
He said exactly the sort of things you would expect a real God to say. He basically said "I'm it and that's that - anyone else who says they are it is a deception" . This is interesting because when you compare this to Islam , for example , Islam tries to incorporate Jesus into some kind of prophet which is just patronising and inaccurate. Mohammed should have dismissed Jesus as of the devil , whereas Jesus dismissed mohammed (implicitly ) as a false prophet.
It's the sheer and utter arrogance of Jesus that is both repugnant (if he was just a man) and compulsive if you see he is God.
There is also the understanding that Christianity describes how God reaches down to man , whereas all other religions seem to be about man reaching for God. Add to that the stress on love and forgiveness.
Probably the biggest thing is that in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection etc. No other religion comes close in this respect. In christ death and suffering have been entered and overcome , no other faith has this hope.
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Originally posted by jaywillSince I do not know - as you have repeatedly claimed - what your God is like or what Jesus taught, I cannot answer your question accurately. If I was to answer, I would answer it based on my own perceptions of what the Christian God is, and you would instantly play the 'wrong God' card.
I have a few questions too:
If Jesus is Who He taught He was - the Son of God, do you believe that:
For example you mention his 'enemies' which I personally cannot reconcile with my understanding of the Christian God. ('Love thine enemy' comes to mind.)
Do you have a specific reason for asking those questions? Do you really want me to speculate or do you just want to make a point?
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou say that as if it is logical and obvious - it isn't. Since you then go on to imply that it proves the authenticity of Jesus, one would expect you to at least back it up with some reasoning.
If God is real then he's going to have an awful lot to say about truth , lies etc and he's also going to be quite clear, definite and exclusive.
He said exactly the sort of things you would expect a real God to say. He basically said "I'm it and that's that - anyone else who says they are it is a deception" . This is interesting because when you compare this to Islam , for example , Islam tries to incorporate Jesus into some kind of prophet which is just patronising and inaccurate. Mohammed should have dismissed Jesus as of the devil , whereas Jesus dismissed mohammed (implicitly ) as a false prophet.
I don't know where your reasoning comes from.
1. Mohammed was referring to a possible historical Jesus and not to the exact Jesus as portrayed in the Bible - and therefore your argument falls away.
2. Jesus also recognized past prophets (contradicting your statement) rather than dismissing them as the devil.
There is also the understanding that Christianity describes how God reaches down to man , whereas all other religions seem to be about man reaching for God. Add to that the stress on love and forgiveness.
Its always interesting how every theist sees his religion as unique - and every other religion as identical to each other - and concludes that such uniqueness is evidence for its authenticity.
Don't forget that The Spaghetti monster is the only God with noodly appendages whereas all other religions give God arms. (Yes I know that some Hindu gods have lots of arms, but they are still not pasta)
Probably the biggest thing is that in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection etc. No other religion comes close in this respect. In christ death and suffering have been entered and overcome , no other faith has this hope.
Again, it boils down to nothing more than a uniqueness claim - and a false one at that. I am sure there are lots of other religions with similar tales of the suffering of their gods. (Greek gods, and Hindu gods come to mind).
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomThere is only one God EV. He is my God.
why do you believe your god is the only god? why is it your god? im not asking for proof this time. im jw why it is you believe so.
The reason He is my God is because He sent His son to pay my sin dept so that I could "be conformed to the image of His son." When I trusted in what Christ did for me on the cross I received the free gift of eternal life.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Originally posted by josephwbut i dont understand why one would believe such a thing. you believe that is god because it says so. if i said i was god would you believe me?
There is only one God EV. He is my God.
The reason He is my God is because He sent His son to pay my sin dept so that I could "be conformed to the image of His son." When I trusted in what Christ did for me on the cross I received the free gift of eternal life.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomI understand your quandary here EV. You are going to have to believe God, not me.
but i dont understand why one would believe such a thing. you believe that is god because it says so. if i said i was god would you believe me?
Have you tried reading through the Bible? It only takes about 90 hours. Do it!
Originally posted by josephwi dont really see it as a worthwhile read since its not a credible source of how things came to be. in my opinion, there are so many contradictions in translation that i don't want to get into all that debate since i don't believe anyways.
I understand your quandary here EV. You are going to have to believe God, not me.
Have you tried reading through the Bible? It only takes about 90 hours. Do it!
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Originally posted by EcstremeVenomBefore you comment on the credibility of the bible, you should read it. otherwise you have little if any right to judge its content.
i dont really see it as a worthwhile read since its not a credible source of how things came to be. in my opinion, there are so many contradictions in translation that i don't want to get into all that debate since i don't believe anyways.
Also how do you know there's contradictions if you've never read it?
I'm an Atheist, but any religions discussions I have the first thing I do is ensure I've read the texts/teachings of said religion. Otherwise one is arguing from an ignorant position.....
Besides the bible is actually quite an interesting read.
Originally posted by Mexicoive googled the bible a few times and read some small parts but nothing major
Before you comment on the credibility of the bible, you should read it. otherwise you have little if any right to judge its content.
Also how do you know there's contradictions if you've never read it?
I'm an Atheist, but any religions discussions I have the first thing I do is ensure I've read the texts/teachings of said religion. Otherwise one is ar ...[text shortened]... g from an ignorant position.....
Besides the bible is actually quite an interesting read.