Originally posted by EcstremeVenom"why do you believe your god is the only god? why is it your god? im not asking for proof this time. im jw why it is you believe so."
i dont really see it as a worthwhile read since its not a credible source of how things came to be. in my opinion, there are so many contradictions in translation that i don't want to get into all that debate since i don't believe anyways.
Then don't bother wasting your time asking me why I believe the way I do. If you refuse to recognise the authority of Scripture, then you're on your own, and in that case you will have to rely on your own authority. Which is what you have been doing and you still don't know anything for sure.
And as far as there being contradictions in the Bible, you're wrong.
Originally posted by josephwEven the most fundamentalist of Jews admits that the OT bible is contradictory in places.... And wide open to multiple interpretations.... Which is odd considering they've been studying it a lot longer than Christians have...
"why do you believe your god is the only god? why is it your god? im not asking for proof this time. im jw why it is you believe so."
Then don't bother wasting your time asking me why I believe the way I do. If you refuse to recognise the authority of Scripture, then you're on your own, and in that case you will have to rely on your own authority. Which i ...[text shortened]... nything for sure.
And as far as there being contradictions in the Bible, you're wrong.
And what proof do you have that the scripture should be recognized as any sort of Authority besides whats written in said scripture. Honest question not trying to start an argument.
I'm curious, why God has the privilege to ignore the Ten Commandments? I'm referring to the one about killing. He has killed a lot according to Bible (Quite a lot died during the flood).
Jesus ranted about turning the other cheek, hence being not vengeful. However, "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me" Exodus 20:5. Not exactly killing, but that is sort of vengeance.
Isn't that contradictory?
Originally posted by kbaumenBump.
I'm curious, why God has the privilege to ignore the Ten Commandments? I'm referring to the one about killing. He has killed a lot according to Bible (Quite a lot died during the flood).
Jesus ranted about turning the other cheek, hence being not vengeful. However, "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, ...[text shortened]... odus 20:5. Not exactly killing, but that is sort of vengeance.
Isn't that contradictory?
Is there no one to oppose?
Originally posted by knightmeisterHave you asked yourself why other religions would want to come close to the perception of God you describe?
Probably the biggest thing is that in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection etc. No other religion comes close in this respect.
You say that "in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection". This is exactly the reason why most Muslim thinkers (and, indeed, most ordinary Muslims here in Indonesia) find Christianity so preposterous - or even blasphemous.
kbaumen,
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Jesus ranted about turning the other cheek, hence being not vengeful. However, "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me" Exodus 20:5. Not exactly killing, but that is sort of vengeance.
Isn't that contradictory?
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I don't see any.
In the New Testament Jesus is teaching His disciples to leave their vindication up to God. They should not take it into their own hands. God will repay.
Then you jump back into the Old Testament. God is the one repaying.
In both instances it is God who points to Himself as the only qualified one to balance the scales of justice. So there is no contradiction.
By the way, there is no way we in our natural beings can live the way Jesus taught. We must receive Jesus into us to be our inward divine life through regeneration and sanctification. His teaching in Matthew is largely a discription of Himself. This is the way the Son of God lived.
To live like Him you must have the Gospel of John that shows that He Himself can enter into His dicsiples to be their life. "As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57) We must "eat" Jesus by allowing Him to enter into our beint and be assimilated into our personality. We live because of Him by taking Him into us -
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Now, the children matter - this is a deterent. The Israelites needed to know that their sins had negative effects on the children after them. More people need to realize that if they don't just think about themselves but their offspring they would certainly not do many bad things.
The children who have sinning parents and are thereby troubled have their own life of faith. They certainly can break the chain of misfortune somewhat by themselves turning to God. Look at the many examples right there in your Bible.
A cursury reading through First and Second Kings will show that the offspring of very bad kings did not have to also be very bad themselves and perpetuate the negative consequences of their parents.
And if we believers could not reverse negative consequences of our sinning parents, we always have Romans 8 to promise us "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose."
The time transcendent God alone has the power to cause our entire past nagatives to work out of good, if we love God and are called according to the eternal purpose of God.
We can't lose going God's way.
Originally posted by FMF==================================
Have you asked yourself why other religions would want to come close to the perception of God you describe?
You say that "[b]in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection". This is exactly the reason why most Muslim thinkers (and, indeed, most ordinary Muslims here in Indonesia) find Christianity so preposterous - or even blasphemous.[/b]
You say that "in Christianity God gets his hands dirty and dies ugly and suffers. He is acquainted with loss , grief , death , pain, rejection". This is exactly the reason why most Muslim thinkers (and, indeed, most ordinary Muslims here in Indonesia) find Christianity so preposterous - or even blasphemous.
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You need not be concerned with any kind of defilment or dirt in following Jesus the Son of God. He is able to present us before His Father spotless and without blemish. For that is what He has pre-destined the saved to be before the foundation of the world.
I said that before the creation of the universe God destined the saved to be presented before Him pure, spotless, without blemish, without moral defect or sin or any such thing. God is able to present you in that condition before Him objectively and subjectively:
"Even as He chose us in HIm before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)
"That He might present the church to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:27)
IF you wish to be finally presented before God as righteous as Christ Himself you need to be found in Christ. You need to bring yourself to realm and sphere of being in this living and resurrected Son of God.
In the realm and sphere of Christ He is able to present you glorious, not only sinless, but glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or blemish of any moral kind. For that is what He has destined for the saved before even He creation the universe - "before the foundation of the world"
Christ is clean. And to be in Christ is to be made clean within and without.
has it occurred to anyone that although there may be only one god(which i believe to be true), He may allow for different religions?
think of a religion as a regionalized copy of Windows XP. it contains aspects particular to your culture such as language and right to left writing in arab versions which makes worshiping bill gates easier for you. but all windows are belong to bill.
Christianity works for me, but if you ask me whether i think that a Muslim living a peaceful productive life would go to hell my answer is most certainly not.
Originally posted by ZahlanziWhat about an atheist living a peaceful productive life?
Christianity works for me, but if you ask me whether i think that a Muslim living a peaceful productive life would go to hell my answer is most certainly not.
What, in your opinion are the requirements for entry to heaven?
Why do you profess to be a Christian when you clearly do not believe some of the core teachings of Christianity? Do you just pretend to be Christian?
Originally posted by twhiteheadan atheist will require a lot of paperwork to get into heaven. when you claim god doesn't exist you actually say you don't need him. and when you say you don't need him, god would have to be a REALLY nice guy not to say: "HA, who is a figment of stupid people's imagination now, wise guy, the door to hell is that way --->"
What about an atheist living a peaceful productive life?
What, in your opinion are the requirements for entry to heaven?
Why do you profess to be a Christian when you clearly do not believe some of the core teachings of Christianity? Do you just pretend to be Christian?
what core teachings of christianity? that buddy christ died for my sins, resurrected and he is the son of god? yes i believe that. that we should be nice to each other and believe in god, yes i believe that too.
however, it requires a special kind of stupidity to believe the bible to be a scientific book(see genesis) or that all the moral guidelines still apply to our society(as in the widow should spend all her life in mourning even if her husband died when she was 20).
i am a christian, but i am also a human being, capable of some degree of rational thought. so i decide not to stone an unfaithful wife to death if you don't mind.
if you want to continue this chat, please tell us what you consider core teachings of christianity and we will discuss upon them
Originally posted by SJ247genesis is quite funny. but the rest of the old testament is just jews bragging how badass and vengeful god is. i would rather skip to jesus's teachings.
Numbers was excruciating, and revelations wasn't as exciting as I'd hoped. Otherwise, it was alright.
Originally posted by ZahlanziI am sure someone else who knows the Bible better can quote a few verses that imply that Christianity is the only way to heaven and that belief in other gods is a terrible sin. You seem to think that belief in Krishna is acceptable as 'belief in God'.
i am a christian, but i am also a human being, capable of some degree of rational thought. so i decide not to stone an unfaithful wife to death if you don't mind.
if you want to continue this chat, please tell us what you consider core teachings of christianity and we will discuss upon them
Also, there are a number of verses that imply that God knows the future, makes you wonder why he would arrange to have a Bible written that was not very suitable for us.
Now use your rational thought, and explain to me how the moral guideline of stoning an unfaithful wife applied at any time in history.
What I consider to be one of the core teachings of Christianity, is that God had a hand in the writing of the Bible. Quite simply, if he didn't then any rational person would dismiss most of it as untrue.
Originally posted by kbaumenCodex Three, The Ten Commandments, is rightly understood as a summary of morality principles, i.e., a 'Freedom Code' designed:
I'm curious, why God has the privilege to ignore the Ten Commandments? I'm referring to the one about killing. He has killed a lot according to Bible (Quite a lot died during the flood).
Jesus ranted about turning the other cheek, hence being not vengeful. However, "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, odus 20:5. Not exactly killing, but that is sort of vengeance.
Isn't that contradictory?
(1) To preserve and protect human privacy, property and life and (2) in so doing to perpetuate the human race which, over the sweep
of its history, has been bent on its own self destruction. It deals with morality not spirituality issues. It is designed for the entire human
race, believer and unbeliever alike. "Thou shalt not kill" in the Hebrew clearly commands... Thou shalt not murder. It does not by any stretch
of the imagination set aside the divine principles of freedom through military victory or capital punishment. One of God's titles, in the
theocratic dispensation of Israel, was 'Lord of the Armies' and He still holds the all time enemy kill record with 185,000 Assyrians in those
few moments just before dawn at their encampment. Fallen angels had the ability to cohabit with the 'daughters of men' up until the Flood
and had infiltrated/contaminated the entire human race except for Noah and his family. Flood restored humanity to its original design
and thus provided the necessary framework for the First Advent... Christ in hypostatic union, undiminished deity and perfect humanity in
one person forever. As mediator between God and man He satisfied the requirement of being equal to both parties. Since Eden, Lucifer
has resourcefully introduced every initiative, gambit and obstacle possible to frustrate God's Plan in the false hope of prevailing in the
prehistoric angelic conflict. Two of God's attributes are perfect integrity and immutability. He is incapable of contradictory behavior in thought
or word or deed... yesterday, today or in the future. Only self limiting issues in play are willful human ignorance, intransigence and myopia.
🙂