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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 07 Nov '09 01:55
    In the United States, it is not legal to discriminate because of religion. God should clearly be outlawed then because, according to certain of his followers, if you don't believe in the right religion, you can't be saved, or even worse, you could end up in hell. This is clear cut religious discrimination here in the USof A.
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '09 01:56
    Originally posted by 667joe
    In the United States, it is not legal to discriminate because of religion. God should clearly be outlawed then because, according to certain of his followers, if you don't believe in the right religion, you can't be saved, or even worse, you could end up in hell. This is clear cut religious discrimination here in the USof A.
    Surely you can't be serious.
  3. 07 Nov '09 03:40
    Originally posted by 667joe
    In the United States, it is not legal to discriminate because of religion. God should clearly be outlawed then because, according to certain of his followers, if you don't believe in the right religion, you can't be saved, or even worse, you could end up in hell. This is clear cut religious discrimination here in the USof A.
    Discrimination is "Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

    Those people who believe that are not discriminating by declaring that other people will go to hell or not be saved. It isn't their decision to make. They're just talking about what they believe, just as you're posting this about what you believe. Your posting this doesn't make it true any more than their saying it makes it true. It's not discrimination unless it was in their power to prevent people from entering the eternity of their choice.

    If we use your logic, though, then parents would be outlawed because their children discriminate by only playing with boys or only playing with girls or only ... whatever. Attributing something to God doesn't make it his fault.
  4. 07 Nov '09 06:32
    You guys are missing the point. According to fundamentalists, god discriminates. I think we can agree, the US constitution does not allow this very type of religious discrimination favoring one group over another. Don't you get a sense of cognitive dissonance here? God discriminates. US constitution prohibits discrimination based on religion.
  5. 07 Nov '09 11:44
    Originally posted by 667joe
    In the United States, it is not legal to discriminate because of religion. God should clearly be outlawed then because, according to certain of his followers, if you don't believe in the right religion, you can't be saved, or even worse, you could end up in hell. This is clear cut religious discrimination here in the USof A.
    I don't think the US constitution has jurisdiction over divinities.
  6. 07 Nov '09 12:23
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I don't think the US constitution has jurisdiction over divinities.
    I am only pointing out that the US law has reached a loftier position than divine law.
  7. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '09 13:04
    Originally posted by 667joe
    You guys are missing the point. According to fundamentalists, god discriminates. I think we can agree, the US constitution does not allow this very type of religious discrimination favoring one group over another. Don't you get a sense of cognitive dissonance here? God discriminates. US constitution prohibits discrimination based on religion.
    The Constitution does not allow the state to favor one religious group over another. Religious groups are free to discriminate against one another (within the confines of the law) to their heart's content.
  8. 07 Nov '09 13:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Religious groups are free to discriminate against one another (within the confines of the law) to their heart's content.
    Is it allowed in America to discriminate jews as long as you belong to another religious group? Like "In this establishment only non-jews are welcome!"
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '09 13:32
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Is it allowed in America to discriminate jews as long as you belong to another religious group? Like "In this establishment only non-jews are welcome!"
    I'm not sure about that. The Boy Scouts can legally exclude atheists from their membership. I don't know if a church could ban unwanted groups from their premises. That may or may not fall within the confines of the law. But every Christian denomination is free to say that Jews (or whomever) will burn in hell if they want.
  10. 07 Nov '09 14:00
    Originally posted by rwingett
    But every Christian denomination is free to say that Jews (or whomever) will burn in hell if they want.
    Or burn in ovens?
  11. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '09 14:03
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Or burn in ovens?
    A religious group is free to say that 'x' group ought to burn in ovens, but actually burning them in ovens obviously falls outside the confines of the law.
  12. 07 Nov '09 14:18
    Originally posted by rwingett
    A religious group is free to say that 'x' group ought to burn in ovens, but actually burning them in ovens obviously falls outside the confines of the law.
    Burning jews in ovens is of course forbidden by laws, but to say that it should be done is totally alright?

    Does this mean that nazi organisations could be allowed in USA if they only define themselves as a religious movement?

    Or as a organized homophobic religious movement?
    Or as a non-acting al Quaida organization as a religious movement?
  13. 07 Nov '09 14:53
    Originally posted by 667joe
    You guys are missing the point. According to fundamentalists, god discriminates. I think we can agree, the US constitution does not allow this very type of religious discrimination favoring one group over another. Don't you get a sense of cognitive dissonance here? God discriminates. US constitution prohibits discrimination based on religion.
    No, you are missing the point. God is not discriminating. The people who are fundamentalists are. You are trying to connect things that are disconnected. Also, the ban on religious discrimination is limited. A male muslim, for example, cannot join a convent. He can claim religious or gender discrimination until he's blue in the face, and it's just not going to happen. There are circumstances under which limited discrimination is acceptable. There are Catholic schools that won't hire teachers who aren't Catholic, nor will they allow students who aren't Catholic. I suspect that Jewish schools and Seventh Day Adventist schools and some Lutheran schools are the same way.

    And no matter what you personally want to claim, God is not doing any of that discriminating. If you want to claim that God is discriminating, you need to show a good argument and not claim that because someone else is doing it, then God is (especially since you don't believe in God). Good luck.
  14. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    07 Nov '09 14:56
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Burning jews in ovens is of course forbidden by laws, but to say that it should be done is totally alright?

    Does this mean that nazi organisations could be allowed in USA if they only define themselves as a religious movement?

    Or as a organized homophobic religious movement?
    Or as a non-acting al Quaida organization as a religious movement?
    Just look at Fred Phelps and his band of loonies. They're free to say any outrageous thing they want. It isn't totally alright. I don't think it carries any legal sanctions, but they are ostracized by everyone else in society.

    There are Nazi organizations in the US. The American Nazi Party, founded by George Lincoln Rockwell, for example. They don't need to define themselves as a religion. It isn't just religious loonies who are free to say outrageous things. Secular groups can as well.
  15. 07 Nov '09 16:00
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Burning jews in ovens is of course forbidden by laws, but to say that it should be done is totally alright?

    Does this mean that nazi organisations could be allowed in USA if they only define themselves as a religious movement?

    Or as a organized homophobic religious movement?
    Or as a non-acting al Quaida organization as a religious movement?
    Actually, god does not discriminate (because he does not exist). Some people who believe in god, however, say god discriminates.