Theological Implications of Right to Lifers

What do you think pre-embyro souls do in Limbo, LH? Describe the average day of a zygote that didn't succeed in getting implanted in the womb once it gets to Limbo.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Then as far as official Church doctrine goes unbaptised children and presumably the majority of "human beings" who perish as pre-embyros go to Hell unless God does something that is not explainable consistent with Church doctrine.

No, that's wrong. Official Church doctrine is silent on the fate of unbaptised children (except that they are entrusted to the mercy of God). It does not say they go to Hell.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What do you think pre-embyro souls do in Limbo, LH? Describe the average day of a zygote that didn't succeed in getting implanted in the womb once it gets to Limbo.

They don't do anything. They are in a state of permanent natural happiness.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
They don't do anything. They are in a state of permanent natural happiness.

What would happiness mean to a pre-embyro?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
No, that's wrong. Official Church doctrine is silent on the fate of unbaptised children (except that they are entrusted to the mercy of God). It does not say they go to Hell.

So Church doctrine is silent on the fate of the majority of "human beings"? That's a bit odd, ain't it?

Originally posted by no1marauder
What would happiness mean to a pre-embyro?

Sufficient food (nutrients), water, oxygen.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Sufficient food (nutrients), water, oxygen.

That wouldn't make it "happy" though it would be necessary for it to physically exist. Will pre-embyros have a physical existence that requires such things in Limbo?

Originally posted by no1marauder
That wouldn't make it "happy" though it would be necessary for it to physically exist. Will pre-embyros have a physical existence that requires such things in Limbo?

I don't think they will require such things. Nevertheless, it is possible, even for a single-cell organism, to experience discomfort at the absence of such things. An unborn human being would experience no such discomfort in limbo; it would experience all the comfort of being well-fed etc.

Every living organism is able to experience comfort and discomfort in its own mode. The former is what I mean by 'natural happiness'.

Originally posted by no1marauder
So Church doctrine is silent on the fate of the majority of "human beings"? That's a bit odd, ain't it?

Not really. No one says the Church is omniscient.

Originally posted by vistesd
I don’t know a lot about it, but the version in Hasidic Judaism seems to be something like the soul, in between incarnations, reflects on its history and chooses the human conditions under which to be reincarnated the next time, in order to continue a progressive journey of spiritual development. So, that does seem to involve some sort of “transmutation” pe ...[text shortened]... d reincarnation per se seems to be that the human soul never reincarnates as, say, a tree frog.)

Are we talking about this group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasidic_Judaism

??

Seems almost deutero-Christian to me...

Originally posted by lucifershammer
For the record, I believe they are neither eternally damned nor sent to Heaven (not in the way human beings who have attained the age of reason, anyway).

That doesn't mean those of us who are fortunate to have lived are freed from our responsibilities towards God and creation.

That's terrible! Those poor zygotes never had a chance! Why should they be denied heaven?

Originally posted by telerion
That's terrible! Those poor zygotes never had a chance! Why should they be denied heaven?

Why should they be allowed into Heaven in the first place?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Why should they be allowed into Heaven in the first place?

My question makes more sense.

Originally posted by telerion
My question makes more sense.

No it doesn't. Your question is analogous to my asking why I should be denied a share in Bill Gates' $42bn personal net worth.

For your question to make sense, you must show first that an unborn child (or any human being, in general) is entitled to make it to Heaven. Without doing that, talk of Heaven being "denied" is misleading.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I don't think they will require such things. Nevertheless, it is possible, even for a single-cell organism, to experience discomfort at the absence of such things. An unborn human being would experience no such discomfort in limbo; it would experience all the comfort of being well-fed etc.

Every living organism is able to experience comfort and discomfort in its own mode. The former is what I mean by 'natural happiness'.

You think that single-celled organisms can have conscious states?