Originally posted by DoctorScribblesInfallibility (in Catholic theology) is the inability to definitively teach error in matters of faith and morals. Since the Ten Commandments are already part of Catholic dogma, the Pope would be unable to revoke the Fifth Commandment.
You told me that it follows logically from the pope's infallibility that him making a proclamation about the Lord revoking the 5th Commandment is an impossibility. I am asking for the reasoning behind this finding.
I can accept that the other, paradoxical proclamation is impossible for an infallible being to make (although I don't concede that the pope is infallible), but I don't see how the Commandment proclamation is impossible.
Originally posted by lucifershammerIn my example, the Pope is not revoking the 5th Commandment. He is reporting that the Lord has told him that the Lord himself has revoked the commandment.
Infallibility (in Catholic theology) is the inability to definitively teach error in matters of faith and morals. Since the Ten Commandments are already part of Catholic dogma, the Pope would be unable to revoke the Fifth Commandment.
Is this consistent with infallibility?
Would you believe the pope?
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo, it isn't. There are many dogmas of the Church this would violate:
In my example, the Pope is not revoking the 5th Commandment. He is reporting that the Lord has told him that the Lord himself has revoked the commandment.
Is this consistent with infallibility?
1. The unchanging nature of Natural Law (the Decalogue is the revealed form of the natural law)
2. The unchanging nature of God
3. The end of General Revelation with the death of the last Apostle (all revelations after that would be private and non-binding on the Church)
Any one of the above is sufficient to prevent the Pope from making such an ex cathedra proclamation.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo, but:
Do you continue to follow the rules of Leviticus?
1. The Jews still do. AFAICS, they are still bound by them.
2. The rules of Leviticus had run their course (this is part of the Apostolic General Revelation itself). It wasn't a question of God changing his mind or "revoking" them.
I thought you might bring this up.
Originally posted by lucifershammerRun their course? Can you break that down into an example? It seems to me that his immutability might be compromised by this new convenant.
2. The rules of Leviticus had run their course (this is part of the Apostolic General Revelation itself). It wasn't a question of God changing his mind or "revoking" them.
Originally posted by lucifershammerSuppose the Pope made a declaration that the Lord told him that the 5th Commandment had run its course. Here, only (1) and (3) above would apply, correct? (2) would be irrelevant, since rules running their course don't imply that God has changed.
No, but:
1. The Jews still do. AFAICS, they are still bound by them.
2. The rules of Leviticus had run their course (this is part of the Apostolic General Revelation itself). It wasn't a question of God changing his mind or "revoking" them.
I thought you might bring this up.
Originally posted by David CI can explain it better with an analogy.
Run their course? Can you break that down into an example? It seems to me that his immutability might be compromised by this new convenant.
The father of an 8 year-old child tells him not to stay out after 6pm. Once the child reaches 13, he is allowed to stay out till 8pm. Has the father changed? When he asked the child not to stay out after 6pm five years ago, was it his intention that the child never stay out after 6pm no matter how old he became?
Clearly not.
The 6pm rule was put in for a reason. It has now "run its course".
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesRight. But any one of the three is sufficient to prevent such a proclamation.
Suppose the Pope made a declaration that the Lord told him that the 5th Commandment had run its course. Here, only (1) and (3) above would apply, correct? (2) would be irrelevant, since rules running their course don't imply that God has changed.