There is injustice in the universe

@kevin-eleven said
It's unfortunate that humans are so articulate, particular, and elaborate in their objections to perceived injustices, when compared to little furry squeezebox kitties indicating their own objections.

That's true. In addition, little furry squeezebox kitties are not afflicted with intense desires to debate abstract hypothetical concepts that bear little resemblance to things that occur in the real world. Only lawyers and selected posters on RHP seem to be "bent" in that direction

@josephw said
Well kev, my comment was directed at FMF's assertion that the universe is undisputedly unjust.

FMF's assertion that the universe is undisputedly unjust

"The indisputable fact there is injustice in the universe" that I referred to is the brute fact that there are murderers and rapists who go to their graves without being punished, i.e. injustice, ...as opposed to "some sort of supernatural justice". Your unsophisticated mangling of what was clearly meant by the OP is not very surprising I suppose.

@josephw said
The universe, matter, has no mind with which to make unjust actions.

No one has suggested that the universe has a mind. The OP mentions "injustice in the universe" and NOT "injustice by the universe". Why not just talk about the topic rather than immediately set up a strawman like this?

@josephw said
If there was no justice, then you wouldn't know there is injustice.

OK. There is justice if rapists and murderers are caught and punished. The injustice is if they are not caught or if the wrong people are punished. I don't think this concept of justice/injustice is as difficult for me as seems to be for you.

@mchill said
You're skipping over the part about laws. With laws, justice can be clearly defined, without them, the definition of justice (or injustice) is meaningless since there is no basis with which to judge anyone's actions.

Well, let's take a murder or a rape. The "basis with which to judge anyone's actions" in the case of murders and rapes is the law that prohibits these actions and which determines the punishment. How is this "meaningless"?

[Deleted because it's probably better not to reply to such a character.]

[ditto]

@FMF

Have you considered writing screenplays? I think you would be good at it in the sense of turning over some complex moral issues concisely without necessarily being preachy.

If you are good at writing poems or constructing (setting) crossword puzzles, I think writing screenplays would use the same talents and skills.

@kevin-eleven said
@FMF

Have you considered writing screenplays? I think you would be good at it in the sense of turning over some complex moral issues concisely without necessarily being preachy.

If you are good at writing poems or constructing (setting) crossword puzzles, I think writing screenplays would use the same talents and skills.

Have you ever considered entering into the discussion instead of everyday taking up one of the chairs and just pissing your pants?

@fmf said
Well, let's take a murder or a rape. The "basis with which to judge anyone's actions" in the case of murders and rapes is the law that prohibits these actions and which determines the punishment. How is this "meaningless"?

How is this "meaningless"?

I give up, how is this "meaningless? because I don't recall stating murder and rape are meaningless. 🙄

@mchill said
I give up, how is this "meaningless? because I don't recall stating murder and rape are meaningless.

I don't know. You introduced the word "meaningless" into the conversation, not me.

@kevin-eleven said
It's unfortunate that humans are so articulate, particular, and elaborate in their objections to perceived injustices, when compared to little furry squeezebox kitties indicating their own objections.

Oh the injustice!

@fmf said
There is injustice in the universe. About this, I think there is no dispute. But why do some people believe that the indisputable fact there is injustice in the universe means there MUST indisputably be some sort of supernatural justice?

I'll take another stab at this. Maybe you'll post something in reply other than your argumentative and obfuscating sophistry.

"There is injustice in the universe".

So you say, but I doubt you've been further out in the universe than just a few miles off the surface of the earth, so there's really not much credibility to the validity of that assertion.

About this, I think there is no dispute.

Oh but there is! Obviously.

But why do some people believe that the indisputable fact there is injustice in the universe means there MUST indisputably be some sort of supernatural justice?

First of all it is disputable that injustice exists in the universe, but it isn't disputable that injustice exists in the world of man.

Secondly, since it is disputable that injustice exists in the universe, but not disputable that injustice exists on this planet in the world of man, drawing the conclusion that "some people believe" in "supernatural justice" based on the fallacious assertion that injustice exists in the universe, is an irrational and illogical attempt to dismiss justice as it relates to supernatural causality.

Thirdly, if you think rapists and murderers escape justice by dying, you have a lot to learn about just what supernatural justice means. Nobody is getting away with anything.

@josephw said
If you think rapists and murderers escape justice by dying, you have a lot to learn about just what supernatural justice means. Nobody is getting away with anything.

Why do you believe that there MUST indisputably be some sort of supernatural justice? Is it your way of coming to terms with the fact that many murderers and rapists are never apprehended and prosecuted?

@josephw said
Since it is disputable that injustice exists in the universe, but not disputable that injustice exists on this planet in the world of man, drawing the conclusion that "some people believe" in "supernatural justice" based on the fallacious assertion that injustice exists in the universe, is an irrational and illogical attempt to dismiss justice as it relates to supernatural causality.

Well, I don't believe in "supernatural causality", that's true, but I don't see how my question is "irrational and illogical".

Does the notion that murderers and rapists do not escape justice by dying, and that they face some sort of posthumous punishment, help theists to make sense of the world? Is that it?