1. Standard memberbill718
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    14 Feb '14 18:101 edit
    Don't worry folks, I'm not going to preach to you, I'm sure you've heard enough of it anyway, and I know you're not buying any of it. Consider these 2 situations however:

    * If a believer dies, and finds there is no God, his (or her) faith is misplaced and they are simply dead.

    * If a Athiest dies, and finds the the Bible was correct, his (or her) athiest views are misplaced, and they will spend a very, very long time regretting their non belief.

    If one were to use logic regarding these 2 examples, it's clear the believers have the odds in their favor, so feel free to persist in your athiest views...but you had better be correct!😏
  2. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    14 Feb '14 18:24
    Originally posted by bill718
    Don't worry folks, I'm not going to preach to you, I'm sure you've heard enough of it anyway, and I know you're not buying any of it. Consider these 2 situations however:

    * If a believer dies, and finds there is no God, his (or her) faith is misplaced and they are simply dead.

    * If a Athiest dies, and finds the the Bible was correct, his (or her) athie ...[text shortened]... in their favor, so feel free to persist in your athiest views...but you had better be correct!😏
    Don't you just worry about it. Atheists are correct. At least for the Abrahamic gods. Those are 100% man made, to control an unruly population a few thousand years ago and now it is a multi billion person OCD.
  3. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    14 Feb '14 18:28
    Originally posted by bill718
    Don't worry folks, I'm not going to preach to you, I'm sure you've heard enough of it anyway, and I know you're not buying any of it. Consider these 2 situations however:

    * If a believer dies, and finds there is no God, his (or her) faith is misplaced and they are simply dead.

    * If a Athiest dies, and finds the the Bible was correct, his (or her) athie ...[text shortened]... in their favor, so feel free to persist in your athiest views...but you had better be correct!😏
    You phrase this as though it's a simple choice between belief in god and disbelief, but there are a lot of different varieties of faith, most of which don't promise eternal life to followers of other faiths. And that's quite apart from the suggestion you are making that your god needs to resort to threatening his creations with inordinate levels of punishment to get them to behave according to its wishes. Why would anybody bow to a god like that?
  4. Cape Town
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    14 Feb '14 18:42
    Originally posted by bill718
    If one were to use logic regarding these 2 examples, it's clear the believers have the odds in their favor, so feel free to persist in your athiest views...but you had better be correct!😏
    As you well know, inviting atheists to use logic is admitting defeat before you begin because they will always have the upper hand when it comes to logic.

    As for your post, you omitted to mention several other important possibilities and factors involved. Now be honest and tell us, are you unaware of this, or was it a deliberate attempt at deception? Do you honestly think there is an atheist on this site who hasn't heard of Pascals Wager and knows how to debunk it?
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    14 Feb '14 19:29
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    As you well know, inviting atheists to use logic is admitting defeat before you begin because they will always have the upper hand when it comes to logic.

    As for your post, you omitted to mention several other important possibilities and factors involved. Now be honest and tell us, are you unaware of this, or was it a deliberate attempt at deception? D ...[text shortened]... k there is an atheist on this site who hasn't heard of Pascals Wager and knows how to debunk it?
    "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." -C.S. Lewis "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'" -C. S. Lewis (avowed atheist for decades in academic/intellectual circles in the UK)
  6. Cape Town
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    14 Feb '14 20:13
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." -C.S. Lewis
    Presumably the same can be said about Islam? Odd that you didn't provide any similar quotes for other religions.
  7. Standard memberbill718
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    14 Feb '14 20:151 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    As you well know, inviting atheists to use logic is admitting defeat before you begin because they will always have the upper hand when it comes to logic.

    As for your post, you omitted to mention several other important possibilities and factors involved. Now be honest and tell us, are you unaware of this, or was it a deliberate attempt at deception? D ...[text shortened]... k there is an atheist on this site who hasn't heard of Pascals Wager and knows how to debunk it?
    Mr. twhitehead - You can try to "debunk" all you want, but it does not make what I said any less true. The believers have the odds in their favorπŸ™‚
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    14 Feb '14 20:23
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Presumably the same can be said about Islam? Odd that you didn't provide any similar quotes for other religions.
    Christianity is a relationship not a religion. Christianity offers the free gift of reconciliation and eternal salvation; religion seeks to gain approval by human effort. Christianity offers sharing God's happiness; not seventy virgins with martyrdom.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Feb '14 20:39
    Originally posted by bill718
    Don't worry folks, I'm not going to preach to you, I'm sure you've heard enough of it anyway, and I know you're not buying any of it. Consider these 2 situations however:

    * If a believer dies, and finds there is no God, his (or her) faith is misplaced and they are simply dead.

    * If a Athiest dies, and finds the the Bible was correct, his (or her) athie ...[text shortened]... in their favor, so feel free to persist in your athiest views...but you had better be correct!😏
    No, that's not really the way it is. Pascal's Wager has been debunked in this forum many times. The Christian viewpoint, instead of perpetuating the idea that there's nothing wrong with the atheist saying he believes "just in case", SHOULD be that God knows everyone's heart. If you don't believe, you're pretty much done. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior in your heart, meaning you believe it with your whole soul, it just won't work. "Faking it" is not an option.
  10. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Feb '14 20:44
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Christianity is a relationship not a religion. Christianity offers the free gift of reconciliation and eternal salvation; religion seeks to gain approval by human effort. Christianity offers sharing God's happiness; not seventy virgins with martyrdom.
    Buying into divegeester's opinion that Christianity good, Religion bad, eh?

    Well, I love my church and we are doing some good things. If you're responsible for losing just one soul by bad-mouthing religion, that will weigh heavily upon you at Judgment. Religion is not inherently bad. It's evil men who use religion for their own ends that are bad. Let's call a spade a spade. Let's not call a garden trowel a spade.
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    15 Feb '14 02:04
    Originally posted by bill718
    Mr. twhitehead - You can try to "debunk" all you want, but it does not make what I said any less true. The believers have the odds in their favorπŸ™‚
    OK, let's say I offer you a game of chance. It costs $10 to play. If you win, you win $1M. If you lose, you get nada.

    Do you think this is a fair game?
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Feb '14 04:47
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Buying into divegeester's opinion that Christianity good, Religion bad, eh?

    Well, I love my church and we are doing some good things. If you're responsible for losing just one soul by bad-mouthing religion, that will weigh heavily upon you at Judgment. Religion is not inherently bad. It's evil men who use religion for their own ends that are bad. Let's call a spade a spade. Let's not call a garden trowel a spade.
    Religion is man by man's efforts trying to gain God's approval (personal merit and works); Christianity is man's relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ (having accepted a grace gift). "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2: 8-9)

    Religion and grace are mutually exclusive. In every age and generation the need and the solution are the same: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." (Acts 16: 31b) An unbeliever who adds anything to faith cancels the efficacy of faith; an unbeliever who places his or her faith in anything or anyone but Christ is simply not saved. God's grace toward man cannot be compromised. Satan employs religion to lure naïve people away from this simple gospel truth.
  13. Cape Town
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    15 Feb '14 06:46
    Originally posted by bill718
    Mr. twhitehead - You can try to "debunk" all you want, but it does not make what I said any less true. The believers have the odds in their favorπŸ™‚
    Answer my questions, then we will take if from there.
    I warn you though, you won't enjoy it.

    To remind you, I asked:
    As for your post, you omitted to mention several other important possibilities and factors involved. Now be honest and tell us, are you unaware of this, or was it a deliberate attempt at deception? Do you honestly think there is an atheist on this site who hasn't heard of Pascals Wager and knows how to debunk it?
  14. Cape Town
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    15 Feb '14 06:48
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Christianity is a relationship not a religion. Christianity offers the free gift of reconciliation and eternal salvation; religion seeks to gain approval by human effort. Christianity offers sharing God's happiness; not seventy virgins with martyrdom.
    How does that change whether or not the C.S. Lewis quote applies to Islam?
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Feb '14 07:47
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    How does that change whether or not the C.S. Lewis quote applies to Islam?
    "Presumably the same can be said about Islam? Odd that you didn't provide any similar quotes for other religions." -twhitehead

    My reply provides two quotations on the topic of Christianity; perhaps you might reciprocate with a few on Islam.
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