Today i met a Sikh Holy man

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
it took a huge act of stupidity combined with your extraordinary ego to get me to talk to you.
also i was particularly bored and this was funny enough(more funny than the usual bits of wisdom)
unless you plan on stepping up your stupidity and being more of a narcisistic deluded moron, i intend to go back on ignoring you. it will save a lot of time.

ok, whatever, if you desire to make your world a little colder then who am i to stop you, wish you well.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dunno Baddy, because my wife is Asian, Pakistani Christian in fact, and i can speak Urdu and Punjabi, i think i got a fairly god understanding of what he meant.

There were four persons in his car, and they all held him in some reverence as far as I could tell. Rather Interestingly he qualified his statement by saying, 'you build a house and e ...[text shortened]... ble and liberal of the great Indian religions. The caste system is the curse and sin of India.

*nods* Well, to be certain, you were there and I was not, so you would of course have a much better feel of any peculiarity in your encounter with this holy man.

Originally posted by Badwater
*nods* Well, to be certain, you were there and I was not, so you would of course have a much better feel of any peculiarity in your encounter with this holy man.

mmm i wondered if it was a feature of Sikhism that one should tell portents of anothers future, for it is well known that like Hindus they hold some things in common (the founder of Sikhism , Guru Nanak was born in Pakistan (at the time India) and went around with a Muslim and a Hindu companion in an attempt to arbitrate reconciliation between the two great faiths. It was not until the persecution of the Sikhs began that they became more militant, any how, perhaps like Hinduism they give credence to astrology and the like, which for a Christian is totally out of the question.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dunno Baddy, because my wife is Asian, Pakistani Christian in fact, and i can speak Urdu and Punjabi, i think i got a fairly god understanding of what he meant.

There were four persons in his car, and they all held him in some reverence as far as I could tell. Rather Interestingly he qualified his statement by saying, 'you build a house and e ...[text shortened]... ble and liberal of the great Indian religions. The caste system is the curse and sin of India.

I'm not sure that this is a caste system as such is it?

Originally posted by Badwater
I don't think that's what he meant.

The Sikhs that I know are very conservative, maybe more so than Christian conservatives. I think what he meant was to not leave your heart open to anything less than the bedrock foundation; the steadfast, straight line.

This may sound odd to you but I'd be willing to guess that this holy man's perspective was even more conservative than yours, Robbie, and it was from there he was speaking.

...bedrock foundation; the steadfast, straight line.

What's that?

Originally posted by josephw
[b]...bedrock foundation; the steadfast, straight line.

What's that?[/b]

Holding true to the fundamental tenets of faith; the conservative, orthodox, lawful approach and practice of faith.

What I was saying is that perhaps the holy man was cautioning against bringing other ideas and feeling close to one's heart. I said that because I inferred the converse of what he was implying as close-heartedness, as opposed to hard-heartedness.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
I'm not sure that this is a caste system as such is it?

yes there are differing 'degrees', of the caste system as far as i can tell, from simple family names, clans if you like, to the really terrible treatment of the so called untouchables. National geographic had some rather graphic articles which showed a man who had battery acid poured over him because he drank from a well, because he was low caste, this was his punishment for polluting the well. It is of course illegal to show discrimination on this basis, but it happens in practice. What is interesting is that even Muslims have retained a remnant of the caste system, thus you have those who are related to the Prophet down to low castes, the rape of Mukhtaran Mai, is a case in point.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes there are differing 'degrees', of the caste system as far as i can tell, from simple family names, clans if you like, to the really terrible treatment of the so called untouchables. National geographic had some rather graphic articles which showed a man who had battery acid poured over him because he drank from a well, because he was low caste, ...[text shortened]... are related to the Prophet down to low castes, the rape of Mukhtaran Mai, is a case in point.

I meant that the Sikhs don't have a caste system as such. 'Untouchables' are part of the Hindu system are they not?

Originally posted by Badwater
Holding true to the fundamental tenets of faith; the conservative, orthodox, lawful approach and practice of faith.

What I was saying is that perhaps the holy man was cautioning against bringing other ideas and feeling close to one's heart. I said that because I inferred the converse of what he was implying as close-heartedness, as opposed to hard-heartedness.

Holding true to the fundamental tenets of faith; the conservative, orthodox, lawful approach and practice of faith.

Yes, but the question must be asked. Based on what authority are those tenets established?

In other words, who created those tenets? Are they followed obliquely by the practitioner of said faith without acknowledging the author?

Do you see what I'm driving at?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
I meant that the Sikhs don't have a caste system as such. 'Untouchables' are part of the Hindu system are they not?

Hi you may enjoy this article for it very succinctly describes the role of caste in Shik society and shows in some way how it developed. It is true that it is not strictly Brahman Hindu in nature, never the less it exists and is used as a social determining factor. Thus we have warrior caste, or farmer caste etc etc It is clear that this was not the founder, Guru Nanak's original purpose, but that it developed some time afterwards.

http://www.jattworld.com/portal/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2269&forum=1

Originally posted by josephw
[b]Holding true to the fundamental tenets of faith; the conservative, orthodox, lawful approach and practice of faith.

Yes, but the question must be asked. Based on what authority are those tenets established?

In other words, who created those tenets? Are they followed obliquely by the practitioner of said faith without acknowledging the author?

Do you see what I'm driving at?[/b]

I think I see what you're driving at, but I don't know enough about the Sikh faith to be able to offer anything other than where his perspective in general may be coming from. I have no idea where Sikhs perceive their spiritual "authority" to be coming from.

Originally posted by Badwater
I think I see what you're driving at, but I don't know enough about the Sikh faith to be able to offer anything other than where his perspective in general may be coming from. I have no idea where Sikhs perceive their spiritual "authority" to be coming from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism - check it out guys, very enlightening!

Originally posted by Badwater
I think I see what you're driving at, but I don't know enough about the Sikh faith to be able to offer anything other than where his perspective in general may be coming from. I have no idea where Sikhs perceive their spiritual "authority" to be coming from.

I mean, like in general. It seems logical to me that if one practices a Faith, and if that Faith involves a creator(author), then the tenets of that Faith are established by the creator(author), and are not subject to one's personal interpretations.

I realise this is off topic, but it is something I believe is at the core of all spiritual matters.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hi you may enjoy this article for it very succinctly describes the role of caste in Shik society and shows in some way how it developed. It is true that it is not strictly Brahman Hindu in nature, never the less it exists and is used as a social determining factor. Thus we have warrior caste, or farmer caste etc etc It is clear that this was not t ...[text shortened]... ards.

http://www.jattworld.com/portal/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2269&forum=1

Thanks I've learned something there. As I suspected, officially, Sikhism is not caste based. But it appears that some people are still obsessed enough to want to trace the caste of the original Hindu converts to Sikhism, which demonstrates the influence of culture in the context of religious doctrine. The same is true in Christian, Islamic and other religious communities of course.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism - check it out guys, very enlightening!

"A key distinctive feature of Sikhism is a non-anthropomorphic concept of God, to the extent that one can interpret God as the Universe itself."

Not very distinctive at all. It's really just Hinduism. A Rose is a Rose, or, you can't put lipstick on a pig and it is still a pig.

I suppose I'll get beat up on now.