Trinity described online. Feel free to give this a try...

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Good luck with that. Sonship has said he will get back to me on at least 10 issues I have raised. That's his MO.

A bit like when you said you'd get back to me once you've familiarized yourself with the killer bears. How's that coming along?

And I neither defend nor promote the beliefs of JWs. I have highlighted the hypocrisy of Sonship calling them the enemy of ...[text shortened]... version of Christianity that is intent on muscling its way into the Trinity, becoming a 4 in 1 God.

<<A bit like when you said you'd get back to me once you've familiarized yourself with the killer bears. How's that coming along?>>

That’s a good point. I had honestly forgotten about that but will get back to you on that within 24 hours.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It's more interesting to ask, why does an atheist challenge sonship's deliberate corruption of scripture, while other Christians stay silent?

I was under the impression, based on sonship’s posts that I’ve read, that he believed as I did and so tended not to read them as often or as diligently as I would with posts from someone I disagreed with.

But I believe sonship will address the points/questions I asked, though I can’t remember what thread those were in.

@pb1022 said
<<A bit like when you said you'd get back to me once you've familiarized yourself with the killer bears. How's that coming along?>>

That’s a good point. I had honestly forgotten about that but will get back to you on that within 24 hours.

Great. Hope you approach it openly and not try to overly vilify the youths to justify such a horrific act. (Sonship has already failed in the attempt.)

End of the day, youths mocked the bald head of God's prophet. Not nice, but not deserving of God sending bears to rip them to pieces. (Unless your God is actually a monster. In which case, fair enough).

@pb1022 said
I was under the impression, based on sonship’s posts that I’ve read, that he believed as I did and so tended not to read them as often or as diligently as I would with posts from someone I disagreed with.

But I believe sonship will address the points/questions I asked, though I can’t remember what thread those were in.

If you want sonship to return to a question you need to make a note of the thread and remind him a couple of times.

The answer (if it comes) will be a little vague and spread across several quick-fired posts.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Great. Hope you approach it openly and not try to overly vilify the youths to justify such a horrific act. (Sonship has already failed in the attempt.)

End of the day, youths mocked the bald head of God's prophet. Not nice, but not deserving of God sending bears to rip them to pieces. (Unless your God is actually a monster. In which case, fair enough).

Here’s the passage you’re referring to in the NKJV:

“Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!”

So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.”

(2 Kings 2:23-24)

So I read some commentaries on that short passage and here’s what I came away with:

1) The “youths” may actually have been young adults (not children) according to the Hebrew word used to describe them, which I point out simply to say they were old enough to know better.

2) The text says they were mauled, which doesn’t necessarily mean they were killed.

3) The text says 42 of the youths were mauled, which means the crowd was larger than 42 and likely resembled a mob.

4) The youths’ taunt of “Go up” refers to Elijah being taken into Heaven bodily, which immediately preceded the youths taunting Elisha and Elisha cursing the youths.

5) The youths weren’t cursed by Elisha (and then attacked by bears) because they made fun of Elisha’s bald head. It was the “Go up” part of the taunt that prompted the curse and attack.

6) Elisha may well have feared for his life given the size of the mob and their taunts for him to go to Heaven (essentially for him to get away from them.)

7) This no doubt set an example for others in Bethel, which was apparently a hot bed of pagan calf worship, about what would happen to anyone mocking or threatening one of God’s prophets - especially if the mauled youths lived, because they would undoubtedly tell others in that city what happened when they mocked Elisha.

@pb1022 said
Okey dokey

So in your opinion and a couple others here, JW's are not Christian because we don't believe in the trinity's version of Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit all being the same. Right?
If that is the question, in your opinion why would we decide to do that? Why not just go along with the crowd and just fit in? And if it really meant us not doing it right and it really meant that we wouldn't be saved, that would be a little foolish on our part, right.

@galveston75 said
So in your opinion and a couple others here, JW's are not Christian because we don't believe in the trinity's version of Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit all being the same. Right?
If that is the question, in your opinion why would we decide to do that? Why not just go along with the crowd and just fit in? And if it really meant us not doing it right and it really meant that we wouldn't be saved, that would be a little foolish on our part, right.

<<So in your opinion and a couple others here, JW's are not Christian because we don't believe in the trinity's version of Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit all being the same. Right?>>

I never said that. I asked what JWs think makes someone a Christian. That’s all.

<<If that is the question, in your opinion why would we decide to do that? Why not just go along with the crowd and just fit in? And if it really meant us not doing it right and it really meant that we wouldn't be saved, that would be a little foolish on our part, right.>>

That wasn’t the question so the rest of what you wrote isn’t relevant to the question I asked.

@pb1022 said
<<So in your opinion and a couple others here, JW's are not Christian because we don't believe in the trinity's version of Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit all being the same. Right?>>

I never said that. I asked what JWs think makes someone a Christian. That’s all.

<<If that is the question, in your opinion why would we decide to do that? Why not just go along with the ...[text shortened]... >>

That wasn’t the question so the rest of what you wrote isn’t relevant to the question I asked.

Sorry bout that.
We believe all that Jesus taught, everything he said both in every day issues and by his examples. The things he said to do and not do we live our life's by that. Maybe some things we do others don't such as the teaching work that he told the Christians then to do in all the areas there by door to door . It was very organized then and we do that today earth wide. Why other Christian religions don't see that and take it serious in our view is not following Jesus's commands.
We pay Caesar's things to Caeser as the law says no matter which country we are in. But as Christians we never kill for any country.
Right now their are dozens of Jehovah's Witness in prison in Russia because we have bibles and have meetings that the Russian government says we can't have. Dozens of homes have been taken away as has all the Kingdom Hall's and other property of the brothers has been taken also.
Need anything else?

@galveston75 said
Sorry bout that.
We believe all that Jesus taught, everything he said both in every day issues and by his examples. The things he said to do and not do we live our life's by that. Maybe some things we do others don't such as the teaching work that he told the Christians then to do in all the areas there by door to door . It was very organized then and we do that today ...[text shortened]... all the Kingdom Hall's and other property of the brothers has been taken also.
Need anything else?

Thanks for reply.

So you think what makes someone a Christian is following what Jesus Christ said? Is that also how someone is saved?

As I understand it (from being on here) JWs believe Jesus was an angel and was not Resurrected in bodily form. Is that right? Or did He just not ascend to Heaven in bodily form?

@pb1022 said
Thanks for reply.

So you think what makes someone a Christian is following what Jesus Christ said? Is that also how someone is saved?

As I understand it (from being on here) JWs believe Jesus was an angel and was not Resurrected in bodily form. Is that right? Or did He just not ascend to Heaven in bodily form?

Well of course. And by putting faith in what Jesus taught, did by example and remaining no part of the world on certain things like getting involved in worldly affairs such as ignoring politics or fighting in their wars.
Getting saved is not something anyone gets by repeating a few words. Gaining life is a forever thing and is only gained by remaining faithful to Jesus and his Father Jehovah. "Only those who endure until the end are saved". The end of this system has not happened yet. Also "eternal life" is only promised to a certain number for doing certain things in their staying separate from the earthly system.

A side point about Jesus being a part of God as the trinity teaches. The bible says clearly that "God cannot die". Well Jesus died. If he were this strange trinity part of Jehovah, he could have never died.
Once he completely proved even to death the way he did and by his complete obedience to his Father by never faltering and fulfilling every prophecy, he was given eternal life after he ascended to heaven. Yes he did not have an eternal existence before he died. We know that because he "had died" and scriptures explain that.

@pb1022 said
Thanks for reply.

So you think what makes someone a Christian is following what Jesus Christ said? Is that also how someone is saved?

As I understand it (from being on here) JWs believe Jesus was an angel and was not Resurrected in bodily form. Is that right? Or did He just not ascend to Heaven in bodily form?

All angels are called "Gods sons" Jesus was the first born and was clearly called his son. Angel means "messenger". Jesus is called a mediator between his father and humans. He is a messenger.

Jesus was resurrected in bodily form just as has happened in the past with other angels. If Jesus were a human in real flesh, he would have died again with the big wound he still had when he was seen by others. Also when he was seen acceding back to heaven, a real human body does not fly or float up into the sky..... Also "flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven".

@galveston75 said
Right now their are dozens of Jehovah's Witness in prison in Russia because we have bibles and have meetings that the Russian government says we can't have. Dozens of homes have been taken away as has all the Kingdom Hall's and other property of the brothers has been taken also.

Presumably, you will have some empathy then for homosexuals in Russia who are also oppressed and discriminated against by the government there.

@galveston75 said
Well of course. And by putting faith in what Jesus taught, did by example and remaining no part of the world on certain things like getting involved in worldly affairs such as ignoring politics or fighting in their wars.
Getting saved is not something anyone gets by repeating a few words. Gaining life is a forever thing and is only gained by remaining faithful to Jesus ...[text shortened]... an eternal existence before he died. We know that because he "had died" and scriptures explain that.

<<Getting saved is not something anyone gets by repeating a few words.>>

Nobody believes that, and the fact you think you have to tell me that is insulting.

And we’ve been over the Resurrection before. Jesus Christ was Resurrected in bodily form (not flesh and blood) and ascended to Heaven in bodily form (not flesh and blood.)

I gave you the verses that demonstrated that and requested any Biblical support for your belief Jesus ascended to Heaven as a spirit. You didn’t reply to that point.

And if you think salvation is gained by good works and obedience to the commandments, how did the thief on the cross get saved after only expressing belief in Jesus? How do you explain John 3:16 and Romans 10:9? How about John 6:40 and Acts 16:30-31?

If Jesus was/is not God, why did God the Father call Jesus God in Hebrews? If Jesus was/is an angel, why does Hebrews say He is so much better than the angels? Why do the angels in Revelation refuse worship from the Apostle John but tell him to worship Jesus?

<<Also "eternal life" is only promised to a certain number for doing certain things in their staying separate from the earthly system.>>

A certain number doing certain things? Where is that in the Bible?

As far as Jesus dying, He didn’t die. He was fully God (Spirit) and fully human (flesh and blood.) Jesus’ spirit, His nature before His birth to the Virgin Mary, never died.

That’s why Jesus on the cross said, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:” (Luke 23:46)

@galveston75 said
All angels are called "Gods sons" Jesus was the first born and was clearly called his son. Angel means "messenger". Jesus is called a mediator between his father and humans. He is a messenger.

Jesus was resurrected in bodily form just as has happened in the past with other angels. If Jesus were a human in real flesh, he would have died again with the big wound he s ...[text shortened]... man body does not fly or float up into the sky..... Also "flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven".

<<Also when he was seen acceding back to heaven, a real human body does not fly or float up into the sky..... Also "flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven".>>

We’ve been over this before. His Resurrected body was not human and was not flesh and blood.