Trinity explained

Originally posted by galveston75
Well ok then. As I said to sonship, enjoy your beliefs.

Thankyou.
I will enjoy my belief in the truth of God's word.

Can you tell me why Jacob lived when he saw God Almighty ?

Genesis 48:3

New International Version (©2011)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me.

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jacob reminded Joseph, "God Almighty revealed himself to me at Luz in Canaan and blessed me.

NET Bible (©2006)
Jacob said to Joseph, "The sovereign God appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in Canaan and blessed me.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

American King James Version
And Jacob said to Joseph, God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

American Standard Version
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when Joseph was come in to him, he said : God Almighty appeared to me at Lute, which is in the land of Chanaan: and he blessed me,

Darby Bible Translation
And Jacob said to Joseph, The Almighty ùGod appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

English Revised Version
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Webster's Bible Translation
And Jacob said to Joseph, God Almighty appeared to me at Luz, in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

World English Bible
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Young's Literal Translation
And Jacob saith unto Joseph, 'God Almighty hath appeared unto me, in Luz, in the land of Canaan, and blesseth me,

Originally posted by sonship
Thankyou.
I will enjoy my belief in the truth of God's word.

Can you tell me why Jacob lived when he saw God Almighty ?

[b] Genesis 48:3

New International Version (©2011)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and there he blessed me

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jacob said to Jose ...[text shortened]... y hath appeared unto me, in Luz, in the land of Canaan, and blesseth me,

[/b]

Well the bible cleary says "no man may see God and live" so now it seems we have a problem with that scripture and the one you have a question about. Can one be wrong and one right? If so that means the Bible lies on this fact. Is this what you think?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well the bible cleary says "no man may see God and live" so now it seems we have a problem with that scripture and the one you have a question about. Can one be wrong and one right? If so that means the Bible lies on this fact. Is this what you think?

“God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Ca′naan that he might bless me.

(Genesis 48:34 New World Translation)

I think it was the pre-incarnate Yahshua, the Son of God, that appeared to Jacob as God Almighty and not the Father.
Man can only see the Father through the Son and live.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Teh Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
“God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Ca′naan that he might bless me.

(Genesis 48:34 New World Translation)

I think it was the pre-incarnate Yahshua, the Son of God, that appeared to Jacob as God Almighty and not the Father.
Man can only see the Father through the Son and live.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Teh Instructor

"You think", really? "You think". Why don't you know? When will that happen that you actually know?
Anyway almost everytime you answer something on the trinity, you actually disprove it without knowing it.
I love it.

Ok, so no man may see god and live? I have no idea what you believe on that but you say Jesus is God or Jehovah or something along those lines.
Then you say this Jesus part of God came down to earth to talk to Jacob.
But yet you just somewhat admitted that the scripture is true that no man may see God and live so that's why Jesus came instead? But you say Jesus is God? So we can see God and live or we can't see God an live? Which is it?
I wonder why God never sent the holy spirit instead of Jesus since you say it is another part of the godhead thingy? Hummm?

Also along this line of the holy spirit and who or what it is.....Jesus is called the only begotten son of God which by any language here on earth means exactly what it says, even though you have another theory about that, why is the holy spirit never called an only begotten son, or just son, or an angel or something like Jesus is?
If you have an answer, I want to see it from the Bible, not really so much what you "think". Ok?

Well the bible cleary says "no man may see God and live" so now it seems we have a problem with that scripture and the one you have a question about. Can one be wrong and one right? If so that means the Bible lies on this fact. Is this what you think?

The "problem" is taken care of by the REDEMPTION of Christ.

And this redemption had some pre-incarnation effectiveness in the lives of certain saints who DID see God and did not die.

Case in point with Isaiah who said upon seeing God -

"Then I said, Woe is me, for I am finished! For I am a man of unclean lips, and in the midst of a people of unclean lips I dwell; Yet my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

The one of the seraphim flew to me with an ember in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs. And he touched mouth with it and said,

Now that this has touched your lips, Your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is purged." (Isaiah 6:5-7)

So you see in essence various types of the redemptive work of the Son of God acted to atone for sinners who DID see Jehovah God. The same is true for Jacob who saw God Almighty and a few others in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by sonship

Well the bible cleary says "no man may see God and live" so now it seems we have a problem with that scripture and the one you have a question about. Can one be wrong and one right? If so that means the Bible lies on this fact. Is this what you think?

The "problem" is taken care of by the REDEMPTION of Christ.

And this redemption h ...[text shortened]... od. The same is true for Jacob who saw God Almighty and a few others in the Old Testament.

Doesn't make sense. You say the redemption changed that, but Jacob supposedly saw God before that happened according to you.

And in order for this to work, you are basically calling the Bible, God's word untruthful and that God did not tell the truth.

Don't you think God knew he was going to send his son to earth to redeem humans and that we would see his son.
If Jesus were truly God which was seen by humans when he was here, God would have not said "no one can god and live", then instead to say something like "No human can see the Father part of the godhead I'm a part of but you will be able to see Jesus the other third part of the Godhead that I will send to earth later"? Makes no sense huh?
The problem is the trinity is a lie. And like any lie it will never make sense and in fact you have to keep making up excuses to try and make it sound like it could be.
In fact the things you are tying to tell me are not to be found in the Bible anywhere. This is made up by men who are trying to pass the trinity off as a fact. It is not a fact in anyway.

Originally posted by galveston75
Doesn't make sense. You say the redemption changed that, but Jacob supposedly saw God before that happened according to you.

And in order for this to work, you are basically calling the Bible, God's word untruthful and that God did not tell the truth.

Don't you think God knew he was going to send his son to earth to redeem humans and that we wo ...[text shortened]... up by men who are trying to pass the trinity off as a fact. It is not a fact in anyway.

...
And in order for this to work, you are basically calling the Bible, God's word untruthful and that God did not tell the truth. ...
Technically speaking there is no problem with that.

Doesn't make sense. You say the redemption changed that, but Jacob supposedly saw God before that happened according to you.

You are correct that in time Jacob saw God Almighty before the incarnation

What you don't seem to understand is that from God's point of transcendent view Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. And much typology, shadow, prefigure pointed TO Christ to come.

All those sacrifices of the Levitical priests were shadows and prefigures of Christ. And because they people put their trust in them they were virtually the work of Christ before Christ came.

They covered their sins (Romans 3:25) until the time Christ died and removed their sins.

And in order for this to work, you are basically calling the Bible, God's word untruthful and that God did not tell the truth.

No I am not.

The skins that covered Adam and Eve - a type of Christ.
Abel's sacrifice - a type of Christ.
Noah ark - a type of Christ.
The red cord of Rehab in Jericho - a type of Christ.

You don't realize that these signs, symbols, and pointers prefigured Christ who was not yet incarnate ?

Don't you think God knew he was going to send his son to earth to redeem humans and that we would see his son.

That is precisely the point. I am not sure how you're thinking if you don't realize that that is just the point I am making with Isaiah, Jacob, Manoah, and others who saw God. Being believers and patriarchs who trusted God and His way of salvation, the prefigures of Christ were effective for them.

If Jesus were truly God which was seen by humans when he was here, God would have not said "no one can god and live", then instead to say

You cling to "no man can see god and live" because Watchtower trains you to regard the Old Testament as coming AFTER the New Testament.

This is consistent with Jehovah's Witnesses really rebelling against all of the new covenant and wanting to linger in the old covenant law keeping yet with a flavor from your organization.

Always you seem to consult the Old Testament as the final word.
John says a radical thing. John NO ONE has ever seen God. But the Son in the bosom of the Father has declared Him.

To see Christ is to see God. This surpasses all the seeings of the Old Testament. Now God is manifest in the flesh and seen united with a man.

something like "No human can see the Father part of the godhead I'm a part of but you will be able to see Jesus the other third part of the Godhead that I will send to earth later"? Makes no sense huh?

The divine life which the apostles saw, heard, touched and handled and report to the believers is the life that was with the Father. That Word of life is Christ.

Separation from Christ is being alienated from the life of God (Eph. 4:18)

You are not able to see this. Christ is the life of God. And nothing could be more subjective to a person than the life of that person. Christ is the life of God. And He came that we might have this life and have it abundantly (John 10:10) .

The problem is the trinity is a lie.

Charles T Russell is your liar. And he spent a lot of time trying to decode Egyptian pyramid riddles instead of having revelation from the Holy Bible.

The Bible says the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. So the liar is the person like you who denies this.

Originally posted by sonship

Doesn't make sense. You say the redemption changed that, but Jacob supposedly saw God before that happened according to you.

You are correct that in time Jacob saw God Almighty before the incarnation

What you don't seem to understand is that from God's point of transcendent view Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. An ...[text shortened]... and the Holy Spirit is God. So the liar is the person like you who denies this.

I don't have to "cling to anything" but the bible because the Bible CLEARLY says what it says.
The problem with so many religions is that man has this need for some reason to go ahead of God and let man made ideas and opinions get involved, thanks to satan. This book the Bible that he gave us is exactly what he wants us to have. He has not changed a thing in it because it is exactly what he wants to say to us. YOU cannot go in and wonder "well maybe it means this or that" when in fact it says NO MAN MAY SEE GOD AND LIVE" period .
If you can find a scripture that says the complete opposite and that the first scripture has now been cancelled and you now CAN see God, I want to see it.
Other wise you are completely wrong and spreading lies about what God himself said.
If you are wiling and basically foolish enough to do that, well you are very foolish to put it bluntly

Originally posted by galveston75
"You think", really? "You think". Why don't you know? When will that happen that you actually know?
Anyway almost everytime you answer something on the trinity, you actually disprove it without knowing it.
I love it.

Ok, so no man may see god and live? I have no idea what you believe on that but you say Jesus is God or Jehovah or something along t ...[text shortened]... ve an answer, I want to see it from the Bible, not really so much what you "think". Ok?

Then tell us who Jacob saw that he referred to as God almighty? Do you know? Or do you have to check with the Watchtower Society first?

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
So, this self-appointed JW mouthpiece 'explains' a concept he doesn't even believe in?

Oh, yeah, that's great. I'm guessing little fact and a big load of bias in this one.

Next up, an atheist 'explains' Christianity!

Thread 154036

Also check out the second page of

Thread 154067

Originally posted by galveston75
I don't have to "cling to anything" but the bible because the Bible CLEARLY says what it says.
The problem with so many religions is that man has this need for some reason to go ahead of God and let man made ideas and opinions get involved, thanks to satan. This book the Bible that he gave us is exactly what he wants us to have. He has not changed a t iling and basically foolish enough to do that, well you are very foolish to put it bluntly

I don't have to "cling to anything" but the bible because the Bible CLEARLY says what it says.

Genesis 48:3 clearly says that Jacob saw God Almighty and lived to tell his sons about it.

So what do we do with "No man can see God and live" ? Obviously IF and only IF God Himself makes special redemptive provision for the man, HE WILL LIVE. And not only be divinely permitted to live but be BLESSED TOO, as Jacob was.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me.

International Standard Version (©2012)
Jacob reminded Joseph, "God Almighty revealed himself to me at Luz in Canaan and blessed me.

NET Bible (©2006)
Jacob said to Joseph, "The sovereign God appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in Canaan and blessed me.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,

Um, if you didn't notice, all through the Bible God desires to make special redemptive provision for the sinner so that he would not HAVE to suffer the consequences of being estranged from God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Then tell us who Jacob saw that he referred to as God almighty? Do you know? Or do you have to check with the Watchtower Society first?

The Instructor

An angel..... No need to say anything else as it will not do any good.

Originally posted by sonship

I don't have to "cling to anything" but the bible because the Bible CLEARLY says what it says.

[b]Genesis 48:3 clearly says that Jacob saw God Almighty and lived to tell his sons about it.

So what do we do with "No man can see God and live" ? Obviously IF and only IF God Himself makes special redemptive provision for th ...[text shortened]... ner so that he would not HAVE to suffer the consequences of being estranged from God.[/b]

He did and his name was Jesus.

Originally posted by galveston75
He did and his name was Jesus.

Exactly. God made provision and His name is JESUS. So far so good.

Now, Jesus is actually the CENTRAL CORE of the whole divine revelation of the 66 books. So although the man Jesus was not BORN at the time of Jacob- Jesus Christ nonetheless IS the God of eternity.

In the cattle slain for Adam and Eve we see Christ's work.
In the sacrifice of Abel we see Christ's work.
In the very ark of Noah we see Christ's work.
In the actions of the Angel of Jehovah we often see Christ's work.

In many shadows and types in the Old Testament we see Christ's anticipated ministry.

In FUNCTION God before incarnation did many things as precursors, previews, forethought, symbolism, type and shadows which were corresponded to the redemptive work of Jesus when He was born.

For this reason the Bible says that the Lamb of God was slain "from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8)

" ... the book of life of the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world."

So from the foundation of the world, some believers, some patriarchs effectively benefitted from the redemptive work of Christ in pre-incarnation form.

Jacob who saw God Almighty and lived and was also blessed was one of these Old Testament "Christ blessed" believers.