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1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
if you want to over come Satan, Jesus must live IN you, accept Jesus into your heart Robbie and overcome the antichrist that teaches that Christ is not God.
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Originally posted by duecerno we are far from uneducated, for we are taught by the most high himself.
so you admit that you are uneducated, well that's a start. When you can get around to admitting that the WTS doesn't allow "ministers" to get advanced degrees in any of the afore mentioned subjects, you will be closer to the truth.
(Isaiah 50:4) . . .The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself has given me the tongue of the taught ones, that I may know how to answer the tired one with a word. . .
as for your vain assertion, i find it immensely interesting that the apostles of Christ, were also, by the religious leaders of their day, also considered ordinary and uneducated, or have you never read,
(Acts 4:13) . . .Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. . . .
As for advanced degrees we are interested in devoting our time to helping others to hear the good News of Gods Kingdom, not amassing letters to display after our name, or have you never considered the example of the apostle Paul, who, although having and advanced education, , speaking numerous languages, having Roman citizenship, which in itself was a privilege in the Roman world, became a tent maker so that it would facilitate the furtherance of the good news, how did he consider his previous education, let me spell it out for you Deucer,
(Philippians 3:7-8) 7 Yet what things were gains to me, these I have considered loss on account of the Christ. Why, for that matter, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. On account of him I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ
you should give up the pretence of self sacrifice through the accumulation of letters after ones name Deucer, one can hardly see how it is synonymous with the actions of Christ and the early Christians, hey, but then, neither are the actions of Christendom.
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Originally posted by duecerless to do with order, more to do with pre-emminece, LOL, the usual trinitarian blige water that is dished up by those who wish to perpetuate this myth, i am surprised that even you believe it.
hahahahahahaha! LOL! I fully discredited that argument.
edit: since you didn't bother to read it the first time here it is again: The term first born is a transferable title, and has less to do with order and more to do with pre-eminance, especially in the usage applied here. In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I as cited does not support your claim under the light of proper exegetical examination.
Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but the most distinguished in relation to those who were created. If that is so, and if the Trinity doctrine is true, why are the Father and the holy spirit not also said to be the firstborn of all creation? But the Bible applies this expression only to the Son. According to the customary meaning of “firstborn,” it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovahs family of sons. Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies—the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals. What, then, causes some to ascribe a different meaning to it at Colossians 1:15? Is it Bible usage or is it a belief to which they already hold and for which they seek proof?
Yes quite Deucer, for it seems that your arguments on the basis of greek are also to be brought to naught, considering the psalms were written in Hebrew, so you shall answer the question, why are the holy Spirit and the Father also not termed the first born? why is it only the son.
As for your appeal to our friend Raj i hardly think he lends credence to your arguments, for with a bit of luck he is now banned from the forum because of his foul language.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieyour counter argument is an epic failure, go back to the drawing board
less to do with order, more to do with pre-emminece, LOL, the usual trinitarian blige water that is dished up by those who wish to perpetuate this myth, i am surprised that even you believe it.
Trinitarians say that “first-born” here means prime, most excellent, most distinguished; thus Christ would be understood to be, not part of creation, but ...[text shortened]... arguments, for with a bit of luck he is now banned from the forum because of his foul language.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieyou're not really comparing yourselves to the apostles who learned at the feet of Christ are you? laughable at best, as for education, Luke was an educated man (physician, and the author of most of the new testament (Paul) was a sadducee.
no we are far from uneducated, for we are taught by the most high himself.
(Isaiah 50:4) . . .The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself has given me the tongue of the taught ones, that I may know how to answer the tired one with a word. . .
as for your vain assertion, i find it immensely interesting that the apostles of Christ, were also, by the relig ...[text shortened]... tions of Christ and the early Christians, hey, but then, neither are the actions of Christendom.
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Originally posted by duecerRead slowly......
your counter argument is an epic failure, go back to the drawing board
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.5.html
http://www.christadelphia.org/trinityhistory.htm
After you read these, I hope you really do, explain to us how with all this overwhelming evidence you can still say the trinity is a belief taught in the Bible?
Originally posted by galveston75once again...trinity doctrines were espoused by ignatius, clement and others before the council of Nicene, its a nice conspiracy theory though, ranks right there with area 51🙄
Read slowly......
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.5.html
http://www.christadelphia.org/trinityhistory.htm
After you read these, I hope you really do, explain to us how with all this overwhelming evidence you can still say the trinity is a belief taught in the Bible?
Originally posted by duecerOh I see. So not only is the WBTS behind a conspiracy but all the independent web sites that prove the trinity is NOT a bible based belief, is in on it too? You are so misguided it's just plan funny and on the other hand so sad.
once again...trinity doctrines were espoused by ignatius, clement and others before the council of Nicene, its a nice conspiracy theory though, ranks right there with area 51🙄
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Originally posted by galveston75right, I see, so how many pro trinity web sites do you visit and read? um let me guess....zero right? At least I have the courtesy to listen (read) to your position. You will find far more theologians supporting the trinity theology than you will yours.
Oh I see. So not only is the WBTS behind a conspiracy but all the independent web sites that prove the trinity is NOT a bible based belief, is in on it too? You are so misguided it's just plan funny and on the other hand so sad.
Originally posted by duecerI've read many if you need to know. And if they agree, which most dont, they still are blind to the truth of the OBVIOUS facts. Satan has got the Trinitarians so fooled and so blind it's beyond belief.
right, I see, so how many pro trinity web sites do you visit and read? um let me guess....zero right? At least I have the courtesy to listen (read) to your position. You will find far more theologians supporting the trinity theology than you will yours.
Many, many Witnesses used to believe in the Trinity and most felt the way you do until they finally woke up and looked at the OBVIOUS facts.......
Originally posted by galveston75right, I see. a billion christians vs 7 or 8 million JW's and 2000 yrs of apostolic tradition vs 130 years of uneducated floundering, constantly changing back and forth, flip flopping on doctrine. Yes your right we're blind, so sorry my mistake🙄
I've read many if you need to know. And if they agree, which most dont, they still are blind to the truth of the OBVIOUS facts. Satan has got the Trinitarians so fooled and so blind it's beyond belief.
Many, many Witnesses used to believe in the Trinity and most felt the way you do until they finally woke up and looked at the OBVIOUS facts.......
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Originally posted by duecerTry about 5 billion that don't believe in the Trinity... Traditions you say? Mark 7:13. Col 2:8. Matt 15:2. You just go ahead and follow those blinding traditions.
right, I see. a billion christians vs 7 or 8 million JW's and 2000 yrs of apostolic tradition vs 130 years of uneducated floundering, constantly changing back and forth, flip flopping on doctrine. Yes your right we're blind, so sorry my mistake🙄
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Originally posted by galveston75most of those 5 billion don't believe in God, or Christ, yer point?
Try about 5 billion that don't believe in the Trinity... Traditions you say? Mark 7:13. Col 2:8. Matt 15:2. You just go ahead and follow those blinding traditions.
enough with the scriptural ping pong, I've already proven you have no understanding of God's word on your own
edit: love the collosians quote, try reading the whole text next time dum-dum
Colossians 2
Not Philosophy but Christ
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and[a] of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
recieved Christ Jesus the Lord?, in him dwell the fullness of the Godhead bodily? and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power? sounds like the play book for trinitarians. hahahahahahaha!
the other 2 are related to each other, but not even close to being relevant here.
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Originally posted by duecerrecieved Christ Jesus the Lord?, in him dwell the fullness of the Godhead bodily? and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power?
most of those 5 billion don't believe in God, or Christ, yer point?
enough with the scriptural ping pong, I've already proven you have no understanding of God's word on your own
edit: love the collosians quote, try reading the whole text next time dum-dum
Colossians 2
Not Philosophy but Christ
1 For I want you to know what a great conflict I hav ...[text shortened]... ahaha!
the other 2 are related to each other, but not even close to being relevant here.
the usual trinitarian claptrap and bilge water, you have still failed to answer where the father or the holy spirit are termed the first born.
Originally posted by galveston75excellent references, we may just educate our friend yet.
Read slowly......
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.5.html
http://www.christadelphia.org/trinityhistory.htm
After you read these, I hope you really do, explain to us how with all this overwhelming evidence you can still say the trinity is a belief taught in the Bible?