1. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 14:501 edit
    The word trinity does not appear in the bible....nor does the word Lutheraninsm, rapture, millenium, theocracy, Augustiinanism, and many other words in common usage today. To say a word that represents a concept and theology (way we explain God) does not exist therefor it is wrong, is not a valid argument.

    Some people contend that trinity doctrines are of pagan descent and appear only after the council of Nicine; not true. Clement of Rome 100AD, Ignatius in 107AD, and Melito of Sardis 180AD discussed the trinity in their writings.

    some falsly say that trinitarians worship 3 different Gods (or call him a 3 headed God...blasphemy). Perhaps they have failed to realize that the trinity is not 3 Gods in one person, but 3 persons in one God. Much like water exists in 3 seperate and distinct forms (solid, liquid, and gas).

    Matthew 28:19 (New International Version)
    19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    Because in the above passage the word name is singular, it indicates plurality within unity, that they are all the same thing, just different expressions of the same thing (like I am a father a son and a husband).

    I would enjoy a civil discussion about this. I don't think unitarians and trinitarians are as far apart as some may believe. unfortunately semantics seem to get in the way of mutual understanding.

    respectful postings only please, and I will return the courtesy
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    24 Aug '09 14:55
    Originally posted by duecer
    The word trinity does not appear in the bible....nor does the word Lutheraninsm, rapture, millenium, theocracy, Augustiinanism, and many other words in common usage today. To say a word that represents a concept and theology (way we explain God) does not exist therefor it is wrong, is not a valid argument.

    Some people contend that trinity doctrines are of ...[text shortened]... way of mutual undestanding.

    respectful postings only please, and I will return the courtesy
    I think your take on the trinity is a refreshing one. I am intrigued by the concept but sometimes find it can be too vague. Then again thats probably just my understaning.
  3. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:12
    some have posted that the term "Almighty God" is never used in reference to Christ, and that is proof that he is a lesser created being. I would refer them to Revelations. Its very important they read carefully what is said in the following quote. The last verse is Christ speaking. He is the subject of discussion by the author.

    Revelation 1
    Prologue
    1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
    Greetings and doxology
    4John,
    To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
    Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

    To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
    7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
    and every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him;
    and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

    8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


    I am the Alpha and Omega....the ALMIGHTY. verse 7 says that even thosed who peirced him will see him, and then Christ speaks in verse 8. There is no transitional passage to indicate that anyone BUT Christ is speaking.
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    24 Aug '09 15:18
    Originally posted by duecer
    The word trinity does not appear in the bible....nor does the word Lutheraninsm, rapture, millenium, theocracy, Augustiinanism, and many other words in common usage today. To say a word that represents a concept and theology (way we explain God) does not exist therefor it is wrong, is not a valid argument.

    Some people contend that trinity doctrines are of ...[text shortened]... way of mutual understanding.

    respectful postings only please, and I will return the courtesy
    I find it the most interesting that Christ did not go around proclaiming who he said he was. In fact, he asked his disciples who he was and it was only Peter who came up with the right answer. He then told him to keep silent about the matter.

    So I guess he asks us the same thing, "Whom do YOU say I am"?
  5. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:19
    Some claim that the Holy Spirit is distinct from God, yet the book of Acts tells us differently

    Acts 5:3-4 (New International Version)

    3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."


    Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God, which reenforces my earlier point about the trinity being 3 aspects or functions of the same God
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    24 Aug '09 15:301 edit
    Originally posted by duecer
    some have posted that the term "Almighty God" is never used in reference to Christ, and that is proof that he is a lesser created being. I would refer them to Revelations. Its very important they read carefully what is said in the following quote. The last verse is Christ speaking. He is the subject of discussion by the author.

    Revelation 1
    Prologue
    1T verse 8. There is no transitional passage to indicate that anyone BUT Christ is speaking.
    as usual this is absolute nonsense, the Hebrew word is el shaddai, applied to no one but God himself, never to Christ ,why you persist on wasting peoples time with this teaching i do not know?
  7. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:33
    Finally for your digesation and thought:

    Genesis 1 and Isaiah 44 teaches us that God is the creator of all things

    Jerusalem to Be Inhabited
    24 "This is what the LORD says—
    your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
    I am the LORD,
    who has made all things,
    who alone stretched out the heavens,
    who spread out the earth by myself,

    yet in John 1 we are told that Jesus was the creator of all things:
    John 1:3 (New American Standard Bible)

    3(A)All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    The function of the Christ is to give life, which he did through creation, and which is offered to us again through his suffering, death, and ressurection, by which we recieve eternal life. It is still coming from God, the God who became flesh for our sake.

    Yes the word trinity does not appear in the bible, yet in Jiohn1 and john 14, and the epistles, we clearly see 3 functionary's. John 14, Christ promises a "helper' in the Holy Spirit, which we discussed above, is the spirit of God. John 1 says that in the begining was God, and the word was with God,and the word was God. God the father, jesus the life giver, and the Holy Spirit our guide and helper are all the same being.
  8. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:331 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    as usual this is absolute nonsense, the Hebrew word is el shaddai, applied to no one but God himself, never to Christ ,why you persist on wasting peoples time with this teaching i do not know?
    yes Robbie the "HEBREW" word, revelations was written in greek.

    Edit: why is Christ calling himself the almighty and the first and last?
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    24 Aug '09 15:36
    Originally posted by whodey
    I find it the most interesting that Christ did not go around proclaiming who he said he was. In fact, he asked his disciples who he was and it was only Peter who came up with the right answer. He then told him to keep silent about the matter.

    So I guess he asks us the same thing, "Whom do YOU say I am"?
    Are you saying the Christ never said He is the Son of God? Or that God was His Father?
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    24 Aug '09 15:40
    Originally posted by duecer
    yes Robbie the "HEBREW" word, revelations was written in greek.

    Edit: why is Christ calling himself the almighty and the first and last?
    “The Almighty.”

    Greek, ho Pantokrator;

    Lat., Omnipotens;

    (Hebbrew), El Shaddai, “God Almighty”

    applied only to God himself, never to the Christ!

    why don't you take a look at your ideology in respect of the bible as a whole rather than the usual born again practice of picking little verses here and there, why don't you give people the full picture.
  11. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:41
    Originally posted by whodey
    I find it the most interesting that Christ did not go around proclaiming who he said he was. In fact, he asked his disciples who he was and it was only Peter who came up with the right answer. He then told him to keep silent about the matter.

    So I guess he asks us the same thing, "Whom do YOU say I am"?
    interesting point, one worth meditating and pondering. Who is Christ?
  12. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 15:45
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    “The Almighty.”

    Greek, ho Pantokrator;

    Lat., Omnipotens;

    (Hebbrew), El Shaddai, “God Almighty”

    applied only to God himself, never to the Christ!

    why don't you take a look at your ideology in respect of the bible as a whole rather than the usual born again practice of picking little verses here and there, why don't you give people the full picture.
    Thank you for proving my point Robbie. in greek, ho Pantokrator, means almighty God, or one who holds sway over ALL things. In verse 8 JESUS is speaking. he is the almighty. Thanks!
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    24 Aug '09 15:51
    Originally posted by duecer
    Thank you for proving my point Robbie. in greek, ho Pantokrator, means almighty God, or one who holds sway over ALL things. In verse 8 JESUS is speaking. he is the almighty. Thanks!
    it has nothing to do with Christ, there is no reference in the entire bible where Christ is termed the Almighty, this verse is a clear reference to Jehovah himslef,

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

    Amen to that

    i can provide many references to Jehovah elsewhere in the Bible where he is termed the Almighty, can you provide any other reference where Christ is termed the Almighty, no you cannot, not one, read it and weep, read it and weep!
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    24 Aug '09 15:57
    from now on , any references to Christ being equated with God shall be met with the following

    (Philippians 2:5-6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

    Amen to that!
  15. Subscriberduecer
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    24 Aug '09 16:32
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    it has nothing to do with Christ, there is no reference in the entire bible where Christ is termed the Almighty, this verse is a clear reference to Jehovah himslef,

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

    Amen to that

    i can provide many references to Jehovah elsewhere i ...[text shortened]... where Christ is termed the Almighty, no you cannot, not one, read it and weep, read it and weep!
    Where does it say that? what translation is that from? I resourced several, and none agree with yours
    I like this one (NCV) 7 Look, Jesus is coming with the clouds, and everyone will see him, even those who stabbed him. And all peoples of the earth will cry loudly because of him. Yes, this will happen! Amen.

    8 The Lord God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega. I am the One who is and was and is coming. I am the Almighty."



    KJV 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
    8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[c] says the Lord,[d] “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    NLT 7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
    And everyone will see him—
    even those who pierced him.
    And all the nations of the world
    will mourn for him.
    Yes! Amen!

    8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,”[e] says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One.”

    CEV 7Look! He is coming

    with the clouds.

    Everyone will see him,

    even the ones who stuck

    a sword through him.

    All people on earth

    will weep because of him.

    Yes, it will happen! Amen.

    8The Lord God says, "I am Alpha and Omega, [c] the one who is and was and is coming. I am God All-Powerful!"




    It is very clear from the reading of these several translations who and what the subject matter is. And as you so graciously pointed out the greek word for almighty, the point has been proven that jesus is the Almighty God.

    [b] this verse is a clear reference to Jehovah himslef,

    No Robbie its not. the grammar disagrees with you. I reject the NWT, as their are no verifiable sources to who did the translations and what sources they used. All other translations that can be found cite who what where and why. those are the ones I am going to trust
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