trinity revisited (for my own sake)

Originally posted by jaywill
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So if one has Jesus grafted into him, what does this do in say, protecting this human from physical harm or even death?
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First, I would make a correction or clarification. The illustration about grafting come from Romans 9:17-22. That is a discussion about the Ge ...[text shortened]... hed blood and invite Christ the life giving Spirit to come into your being.[/b]

Well, looking thru all this I don't see where you answered it. So just simply put for a boy from Texas, what does this do to us physically while we're humans on this planet? You mentioned Paul and the Bible mentioned that he had health problems.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well, looking thru all this I don't see where you answered it. So just simply put for a boy from Texas, what does this do to us physically while we're humans on this planet? You mentioned Paul and the Bible mentioned that he had health problems.

Oh come on. Don't fall into this folksy Texas boy stuff.

Okay, I admit I am verbose and over answer. Here is the central words of my post directly related to your question:

Why not examine the lives of the apostles and the disciples in the New Testament to ascertain that ?

Whatever happened to the apostles James, Peter, John, Paul, Silas and the brothers Stephen, Titus, etc. is also what can happen to those who receive Christ into them.

What happens in this church age is under the sovereign arrangement of God. What He allows to happen is what will happen.

Originally posted by jaywill
Oh come on. Don't fall into this folksy Texas boy stuff.

Okay, I admit I am verbose and over answer. Here is the central words of my post directly related to your question:

[b]Why not examine the lives of the apostles and the disciples in the New Testament to ascertain that ?

Whatever happened to the apostles James, Peter, John, Paul, Silas and t ...[text shortened]... e is under the sovereign arrangement of God. What He allows to happen is what will happen. [/b]

I guess what I'm asking is it would seem that with this grafting or something like that, and by what your saying and what another person said in another post, that they would have special protection or almost be gifted physically.
The other person suggested in a round about way that they would be perfect in flesh and not sin. I don't think your saying that but just trying to see what it is your drscribing here..

Originally posted by galveston75
I guess what I'm asking is it would seem that with this grafting or something like that, and by what your saying and what another person said in another post, that they would have special protection or almost be gifted physically.
The other person suggested in a round about way that they would be perfect in flesh and not sin. I don't think your saying that but just trying to see what it is your drscribing here..

i'm not sure where it says that people won't sin anymore, but people become transformed through there contact with the lord. Wesley talks about the sanctification process through the Holy Spirit. Our life journey is one where we continually move towards perfection, which is unattainable in htis life. Google Wesley's Grace theology, there is a lot written about it on the internet, which may be helpful.

Us being frail vessels & all this is what is awesome the God of the universe wants to dwell in & with man. I was thinking about the book of Ezekiel it talks about this temple in Jerusalem were God dwells. Is this (I believe it is)a vision of the future? If so Who is dwelling there in this vision? God or Christ? (Of course I believe Christ is God) I think some interpret the vision of this temple as a picture of the church I think.




Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
I guess what I'm asking is it would seem that with this grafting or something like that, and by what your saying and what another person said in another post, that they would have special protection or almost be gifted physically.
The other person suggested in a round about way that they would be perfect in flesh and not sin. I don't think your saying that but just trying to see what it is your drscribing here..

Tomorrow I may revisit this matter. But I warn you that I am going to pursue further the matter of the indwelling of God.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well, looking thru all this I don't see where you answered it. So just simply put for a boy from Texas, what does this do to us physically while we're humans on this planet? You mentioned Paul and the Bible mentioned that he had health problems.

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what does this do to us physically while we're humans on this planet? You mentioned Paul and the Bible mentioned that he had health problems.
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I realize that when my answers are long your attention span seems not to last.

Paul certainly had the indwelling. Paul also had a physical infirmity. Perhaps it was in his eyes (Gal. 4:15).

Paul prayed three times to the Lord Jesus to remove that ailment (2 Cor. 12:8). Christ's answer was that His grace was sufficient for Paul. Paul realized that God wanted to encrease his experience of the indwelling grace of God. God was working the indwelling grace of Christ into the very fabric of Paul's personality for Paul's transformation.

This working of Christ into Paul's soul made him more and more uesful to the church. Therefore, God will not always heal the Christian. God will not always remove the physical ailment from the body of a Christian. He may remove it. And we may ask Him to do so. But He will do His will.

In Paul's care (as in the case of others) to allow the ailment in the body to remain drove Paul deeper into enjoying the inward power of Christ. This worked to infuse Paul's soul with more and more Christ.

God will do what is best for the indwelling. The indwelling must result in the filling of the man's soul and personality with the flavor of Jesus Christ.

I will stop here. The indwelling in the spirit must become the indwelling in the soul. And if it serves Jehovah's purpose to let the physical body suffer that the grace of the indwelling may encrease, He will do so:

Now let's close this off with Paul's OWN WORDS about the matter:

"Concerning this [thorn in the flesh] I entreated the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

And He has said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness. Most gladly therefore I will rather boast in my weaknesses that the power of Christ might tabernacle over me.

Therefore I am well pleased in weakness, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions and distresses, on behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am powerful." (2 Cor. 12:8-10)

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]======================================
what does this do to us physically while we're humans on this planet? You mentioned Paul and the Bible mentioned that he had health problems.
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I realize that when my answers are long your attention span seems not to last.

Paul certainly had the indwellin ...[text shortened]... on behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am powerful." (2 Cor. 12:8-10) [/b][/b]

excellent passage, "My Grace is sufficient for you...." I've always loved that one. It gives me hope and strength when I most need it.

Originally posted by galveston75
I guess what I'm asking is it would seem that with this grafting or something like that, and by what your saying and what another person said in another post, that they would have special protection or almost be gifted physically.
The other person suggested in a round about way that they would be perfect in flesh and not sin. I don't think your saying that but just trying to see what it is your drscribing here..

my friend quickly extricate yourself before you are bored into submission from the plethora of long winded posts used to describe a non reality in near mystical terms, as Deucer finally comes to terms with the spirit being an invisible force as the Bible writers effectively described it and self implodes leaving a messy gunge all around, and before Manny drives you to a similar state of delirium, as his spirit (mingles???) with the God-man? spirit in man with the ultimate goal of attaining unity with the three in one Godhead.

Originally posted by duecer
excellent passage, "My Grace is sufficient for you...." I've always loved that one. It gives me hope and strength when I most need it.

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excellent passage, "My Grace is sufficient for you...." I've always loved that one. It gives me hope and strength when I most need it.
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Focusing on the indwelling of Christ and God, the sufficient grace for Paul is indwelling his human spirit. The sufferings acts to strengthen Paul into the realm to tap into that grace.

Notice that the grace of the Lord Jesus is with the Christian's innermost spirit just as Christ is with his spirit:

"The Lord be with your spirit." ( 2 Tim. 4:22a)

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Phil 4:23)

Once again. In the indwelling of God the Lord being with the Christian's spirit is grace being with his spirit:

"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you" (2 Tim. 4:22)

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen" (Gal. 6:16)

Once again!

For the Lord to be one spirit with the Christian allows the grace of the Lord to be with his spirit:

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Philemon 25)

Do you see ? The grace of the Lord is the enjoyment of the indwelling Christ. For the Lord to indwell the man is for the grace of His presence to be with us that we may live IN Christ as a realm.

Let's look at it again.

For Paul to say "Not I but Christ" is for Paul to say "Not I but the grace of God":

" .. it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal. 2:20)

"I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me." (1 Cor. 15:10)

Do you see? The grace of God is not just something over man. Because of the indwelling of God, of Christ, the grace is the enjoyment of this indwelling Person.

"Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruptibility." (Eph. 6:24)

It is Christ as the grace of God and the grace of Christ which lives in us the God indwelt Christians.

The Indwelling of God and the Trinity. I hope my Berean friends are noble to search to Scriptures to see if these things are so. Do not be turned away or held back from the truth by mockers.

I said above that Paul's physical thorn in his flesh was used by God to encrease Paul's enjoyment of the grace of Christ.

What is true of Paul is true of all Christians. We believers in Jesus need to be strengthened INTO the inner realm where the Spirit of Christ abides in us. That Spirit of Christ abiding in our spirit is God abiding in us.

Now this is a short post. See how the Apostle Paul prays for the church that all the believers would be STRENGTHENED into that inner realm where they can touch Christ and experience grace:

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father ... that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man, that Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith ..." (See Eph. 3:14-17)

Before we are born again we are use to living in the outward man. Upon receiving God dispensed into us as the life giving Spirit, we need to be STRENGTHENED INTO THE INNER MAN.

This is Paul's prayer for all the regenerated Christians. They need not to visit, to stumble upon, occasionalkly, or be passively now and then touch Jesus. They need to be STRENGTHENED into that inner realm where Christ is.

Then remaining there, lingering there, abiding in that realm, Christ will then have opportunity to SPREAD out into their SOUL. That is to make His home in their hearts through faith.

The abiding of God within is a reality. But the Christian needs to be strengthened into that realm, living out from that realm. And this is done by faith.

We must receive Christ and stand by faith "Jesus Christ IS INDEED IN ME." By faith, Jesus Christ the living Person as the life giving Spirit will then make His home in our hearts, transforming our personality.

This is the Gospel !

The Trinity is unseprtely related to God's action of dispensing Himself into man for the indwelling.

In a real sense what God cannot be separated from what God does. And What the Triune God does is work to dispense His life and nature into man.

The Triune God has an eternal plan to impart Himself into man. Now some people mistakenly think this means that each man or woman individually will fully express God in man.

No. This dispensing of God into man is for a corporate expression involving all the millions or billions of saved people who will constitute the corporate and aggregate "city" New Jerusalem.

Collectively, this corporate vessel, composed of all the human beings who have the Triune God dispensed into them, will as a built up entity, collectively manifest God mingled with humanity for eternity.

This is for God's expression and glory, God's image and dominion, and for redeemed man's enjoyment.

The triune nature of God informs us of what God wants to do. And that is to pass through a kind of process by which God can be imparted into man.

This is not advocating "Process Theology" though.

This is acknowledging that for "the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) and for "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) are two "becommings" related to the Triune God's plan to dispense Himself into man.

The first becomming (John 1:14) - "And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us," is a step in the goal of accomplishing redemption for the dispensing of God into man. And the second becomming ( "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" ) is also a further step in God being "processed" for His entering into man.

These are abvious steps taken by God to prepare man to receive Him as eternal life.

Yet all three of the "Persons" of the trinity are eternal and co-exist simultaneously.

For this reason I wrote that we can never separate what God IS from the main revelation of what God DOES. The Father is the source of the uncreated and divine life. The Son is the course, the embodiment of the uncreated and divine life. And the Holy Spirit is the flow, the transmission of that life that God may indwell man.

The Trinity is unseparetly related to God's eternal purpose to impart Himself into man.

Creation is for life impartation. Redemption and salvation brought man back to the purpose of impartation and indwelling. The goal is that God would dwell in man for a mingled entity of God and man in eternal union.

Of this entity, Christ is the unique Head and the saved are His mystical Body. The Father is the source of the divine and uncreated life. And the Holy Spirit is the final reaching to man, the flow, the transmission of God into His people.