1. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Oct '13 02:04
    VATICAN INSIDER Wednesday 16 October 2013

    New scientific experiments carried out at the University of Padua have apparently confirmed that the Shroud Turin can be dated back to the 1st century AD.

    The new tests carried out in the University of Padua labs were carried out by a number of university professors from various Italian universities and agree that the Shroud dates back to the period when Jesus Christ was crucified in Jerusalem. Final results show that the Shroud fibres examined produced the following dates, all of which are 95% certain and centuries away from the medieval dating obtained with Carbon-14 testing in 1988: the dates given to the Shroud after FT-IR testing, is 300 BC ±400, 200 BC ±500 after Raman testing and 400 AD ±400 after multi-parametric mechanical testing. The average of all three dates is 33 BC ±250 years. The book’s authors observed that the uncertainty of this date is less than the single uncertainties and the date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus’ death on the cross, which historians claim occurred in 30 AD.

    The tests were carried out using tiny fibres of material extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana who passed away in 2008 but had participated in the1988 research project and gave the material to Fanti through the cultural institute Fondazione 3M.

    http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sindone-23579/

    The Instructor
  2. Joined
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    17 Oct '13 02:26
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    VATICAN INSIDER Wednesday 16 October 2013

    New scientific experiments carried out at the University of Padua have apparently confirmed that the Shroud Turin can be dated back to the 1st century AD.

    The new tests carried out in the University of Padua labs were carried out by a number of university professors from various Italian universities and agree t ...[text shortened]... insider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sindone-23579/

    The Instructor
    I posted this in another thread to. I remember reading about pollen that was found on the fibers. The pollen was of a plant only found in the region where Jesus was crucified.
  3. Joined
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    17 Oct '13 03:18
    Originally posted by Pudgenik
    I posted this in another thread to. I remember reading about pollen that was found on the fibers. The pollen was of a plant only found in the region where Jesus was crucified.
    Which plant? Where did you read this?
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    17 Oct '13 03:251 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Which plant? Where did you read this?
    I don't remember the name of the plant, but the article stated it was native and only grew in that area. I read it in readers digest
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    17 Oct '13 03:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    VATICAN INSIDER Wednesday 16 October 2013

    New scientific experiments carried out at the University of Padua have apparently confirmed that the Shroud Turin can be dated back to the 1st century AD.

    The new tests carried out in the University of Padua labs were carried out by a number of university professors from various Italian universities and agree t ...[text shortened]... insider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sindone-23579/

    The Instructor
    Vatican find that another one of their holy relics is real.

    More at eleven.
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Oct '13 07:21
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Which plant? Where did you read this?
    FACT: The shroud contains pollen grains from 58 species of plants, 17 indigenous to Europe where the artifact has been for 7 centuries and the majority being plants indigenous, some exclusively, to the area of the Dead Sea and Turkey. These include Nyoscyamus aureus, Artemisia herba-alba and Onosma syriacum. (Frei, M., La Sindone, Scienza e Fide, Bologna, 1983; Frei, M., Shroud Spectrum International 3, 1982)

    http://www.historian.net/shroud.htm

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073154.htm

    The Instructor
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    17 Oct '13 07:46
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    FACT: The shroud contains pollen grains from 58 species of plants, 17 indigenous to Europe where the artifact has been for 7 centuries and the majority being plants indigenous, some exclusively, to the area of the Dead Sea and Turkey. These include Nyoscyamus aureus, Artemisia herba-alba and Onosma syriacum. (Frei, M., La Sindone, Scienza e Fide, Bologna, 19 ...[text shortened]... et/shroud.htm

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/08/990803073154.htm

    The Instructor
    Ok
    Its from Jerusalem.
    So what?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Oct '13 08:071 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Ok
    Its from Jerusalem.
    So what?
    Another piece of the evidence. There is only one man known to have been crucified in the exact manner of the man of the Shroud. Barrie Schwortz was especially convinced this man was Jesus because of the fact of the thorn wounds on his head. This made this a very unique crucifixion.

    So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged Him. And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe. Then they said, “Hail, King of the Jews!” And they struck Him with their hands.

    Pilate then went out again, and said to them, “Behold, I am bringing Him out to you, that you may know that I find no fault in Him.”

    Then Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. And Pilate said to them, “Behold the Man!”

    Therefore, when the chief priests and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, “Crucify Him, crucify Him!”


    (John 19:1-6 NKJV)

    The Instructor
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Oct '13 09:011 edit
    Key Facts About the Shroud of Turin

    · Purported burial cloth of Jesus.

    · A linen shroud covering the dead body of Jesus is mentioned in all four Gospels.

    · The cloth, a rare 3-to-1 herringbone twill weave of hand-spun linen, 3 feet 7 inches by 14 feet 3 inches, bears the detailed front and back images of a man crucified in a manner identical to that of Jesus of Nazareth, as described in the Scriptures.

    · Displayed publicly in Lirey, France, in 1355, considered by many to be the first documented appearance of the shroud. It was brought to Turin in 1578, its home to this day.

    · In 1988, the shroud’s credibility suffered a setback after three separate carbon-dating tests placed the origin of its linen fibers no earlier than the 13th century. Since that time, several experts have testified that the tested fibers, taken from the outer edge of the cloth, were contaminated through repeated handlings and likely not part of the original cloth.

    · Strong evidence indicates the shroud was in Europe hundreds of years before it appeared in Lirey. The Pray Manuscript, the earliest surviving text in Hungarian, is dated to 1192 and features drawings that are clearly influenced by the shroud. The artist not only arranges the body of Christ in precisely the same manner, he is being enveloped in the same sort of shroud, in which the artist even imitates the herringbone weave of the cloth and includes some of the burn holes still extant.

    · Other scholars have traced the shroud back to Constantinople at the end of the first millennium, confirming its Middle-Eastern provenance and casting further doubt on the theory that it is a medieval forgery.

    · First photographed in 1898 by Secundo Pia, who also discovered the image is a negative.

    · The human image on the shroud rests on the outer fibers of the linen weave, in a layer 100 times thinner than a human hair.

    · Uniformly dark pixels make the image similar to a random halftone, with more pixels per area in darker portions.

    · The sharply bounded pixels that make up the body image cannot be duplicated by any known process today.

    · In 1976, a VP-8 Image Analyzer confirmed that the image, unlike any regular photograph, drawing or painting, is dimensionally encoded, able to yield spatial information about the head and body that lay beneath.

    · Darkness on the cloth is inversely proportionate to the body surface’s distance from the cloth — up to a limit of 3.5 cm. This results in the 3-D nature of the image.

    · The image on the shroud presents an X-ray-like picture of the skeletal system, particularly displaying the bones of both hands, the left wrist, the skull and front teeth and some of the vertebrae.

    · Blood stains are exactly correct as modern medicine would expect to see from a crucified victim.

    · The nail holes are placed not in the palms, but in the wrists, a position necessary to support the full body weight of a crucified man, but a bit of information unknown to medieval artists.

    · Scourge marks (approximately 120) have UV response around them, consistent with the presence of blood serum.

    · Travertine aragonite dust, as found almost exclusively in the vicinity of Jerusalem, is found on the feet, knees and nose.

    · In 2002, Dr. Mechthild Flury-Lemburg, former curator of the Abegg Foundation textile museum in Berne, Switzerland, and a world authority on ancient textiles, announced that the weave and style of the materials were from the Dead Sea area and could only have been woven in the period from 40 years before the birth of Christ up to 70 years afterward.

    · In 2005, chemist Raymond Rogers, a fellow at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and an original member of the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP), publishes peer-reviewed research in the journal Thermochimica Acta, showing the carbon-14 testing from 1988 was, in fact, not done on the original burial cloth, but, rather, on a patch that in the Middle Ages had been cleverly re-woven into the border area, thus creating an erroneous date for the actual shroud.

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/science-shines-new-light-on-shroud-of-turins-age/

    Shroud of Turin - Carbon 14 test proves false

    YouTube

    The Instructor
  10. SubscriberProper Knob
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    17 Oct '13 09:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    VATICAN INSIDER Wednesday 16 October 2013

    New scientific experiments carried out at the University of Padua have apparently confirmed that the Shroud Turin can be dated back to the 1st century AD.

    The new tests carried out in the University of Padua labs were carried out by a number of university professors from various Italian universities and agree t ...[text shortened]... insider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sindone-23579/

    The Instructor
    Not that will listen but here we go -

    "as it is not possible to be certain that the analyzed material was taken from the fabric of the Shroud, the Holy See and the Papal Custodian declare that no serious value can be recognized to the results of such experiments."

    Cesare Nosiglia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Recent_developments
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 Oct '13 13:32
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Not that will listen but here we go -

    "as it is not possible to be certain that the analyzed material was taken from the fabric of the Shroud, the Holy See and the Papal Custodian declare that no serious value can be recognized to the results of such experiments."

    Cesare Nosiglia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Recent_developments
    As stated from your reference:

    The shroud continues to remain one of the most studied and controversial artifacts in human history.

    The Instructor
  12. Joined
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    19 Oct '13 08:53
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    As stated from your reference:

    [b]The shroud continues to remain one of the most studied and controversial artifacts in human history.


    The Instructor[/b]
    I suggest you watch Angels & Demons as I did last night. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere is there any mention of the Turin shroud in the entire film.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    19 Oct '13 12:46
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I suggest you watch Angels & Demons as I did last night. Nowhere, and I mean nowhere is there any mention of the Turin shroud in the entire film.
    Angels & Demons film? Funny. Ha!

    The Instructor
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    19 Oct '13 13:41
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    VATICAN INSIDER Wednesday 16 October 2013

    New scientific experiments carried out at the University of Padua have apparently confirmed that the Shroud Turin can be dated back to the 1st century AD.

    The new tests carried out in the University of Padua labs were carried out by a number of university professors from various Italian universities and agree t ...[text shortened]... insider.lastampa.it/en/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/sindone-23579/

    The Instructor
    Now all of a sudden you place faith in the carbon dating methods?
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    19 Oct '13 15:59
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Now all of a sudden you place faith in the carbon dating methods?
    You did not read. This was not the normal C-14 testing, but FT-IR testing. That is Fourier transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy which can be used to date things.

    http://www.webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/spectroscopy.html

    The Instructor
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