1. Standard memberDasa
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    11 Oct '10 23:401 edit
    Introduction
    “The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is
    the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of
    religion as well as all serious endeavor in art and science.” –
    Albert Einstein
    The essence of all Vedic teaching is contained in the Vedanta,
    the scientific and theological doctrine of Vedic science, and in the
    timeless wisdom of the Vedas. Its scientific and intellectual
    contents have attracted the attention of some of the world’s finest
    scientific and philosophical minds, such as Erwin Schrödinger,
    Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein, and Aldous Huxley. It
    speaks of billions of years of history, creation of the universe,
    medicinal science, metallurgy, space travel, embryology, art,
    music, etc. It is no exaggeration to say that there is almost no
    branch of knowledge that is left untouched in the Vedas.

    There are five core features in Vedic teachings: (1) God – Isvara,
    (2) Soul – Jiva, (3) Time – Kala, (4) Matter – Prakriti, and (5)
    Action – Karma. Of these the first four principles are eternal
    whereas the last feature is temporary. Based on these principles,
    Vedic science provides a deep knowledge and understanding of
    life and the universe. In its pure form, Vedic science is also
    known as Sanatana Dharma or the eternal function of the living
    entity.
    One of the unique features of Vedic science is that it
    provides a very vivid and broad description of God and His
    energies. This paper outlines the Vedantic worldview in
    reference to many of modern science’s perspectives including
    the subjects of mind, consciousness and embryology.
    According to Vedanta, there is another reality in nature different
    from matter.
    It is the fundamental spiritual particle (called atman
    in Vedantic terminology), which the author has coined as
    “spiriton.” It is a transcendental particle and is ontologically
    different from matter. It has a conscious property and has free will
    contrary to material particles like electrons. It is only by the
    presence of the spiriton that matter appears animated. In
    Vedanta this seemingly animated matter is referred to as
    embodied life.

    All knowledge relates to the spirit, or more properly, exists in
    it, and that is the sole reason for our interest in any field of
    knowledge whatsoever.” – Erwin Schrödinger [1]
    According to Vedanta, every life form has atma or spiriton, within
    it. In other words not only do human beings possess a spiriton,
    but so do all microorganisms, insects, aquatics, plants, reptiles,
    birds, and so on. In this regard, Vedanta is unique and different
    from the scientific and theological views of many other world
    traditions. The Bhagavadgita (verse 15.7), states: mamaivamso
    jivaloke jivabhutah sanatanah, which means that all spiritons are
    Introduction
    “The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is
    the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of
    religion as well as all serious endeavor in art and science.” –
    Albert Einstein
    The essence of all Vedic teaching is contained in the Vedanta,
    the scientific and theological doctrine of Vedic science, and in the
    timeless wisdom of the Vedas. Its scientific and intellectual
    contents have attracted the attention of some of the world’s finest
    scientific and philosophical minds, such as Erwin Schrödinger,
    Robert Oppenheimer, Albert Einstein, and Aldous Huxley. It
    speaks of billions of years of history, creation of the universe,
    medicinal science, metallurgy, space travel, embryology, art,
    music, etc. It is no exaggeration to say that there is almost no
    branch of knowledge that is left untouched in the Vedas.

    There are five core features in Vedic teachings: (1) God – Isvara,
    (2) Soul – Jiva, (3) Time – Kala, (4) Matter – Prakriti, and (5)
    Action – Karma. Of these the first four principles are eternal
    whereas the last feature is temporary. Based on these principles,
    Vedic science provides a deep knowledge and understanding of
    life and the universe. In its pure form, Vedic science is also
    known as Sanatana Dharma or the eternal function of the living
    entity. One of the unique features of Vedic science is that it
    provides a very vivid and broad description of God and His
    energies.
    This paper outlines the Vedantic worldview in
    reference to many of modern science’s perspectives including
    the subjects of mind, consciousness and embryology.
    According to Vedanta, there is another reality in nature different
    from matter. It is the fundamental spiritual particle (called atman
    in Vedantic terminology), which the author has coined as
    “spiriton.” It is a transcendental particle and is ontologically
    different from matter. It has a conscious property and has free

    The scientists at Bhaktivedanta Institute
    understand that a completely non-evolutionary
    ontology of life has to be developed. Thus any
    attempt at explaining the variety of species will be
    problematic until the irreducibility of life as a
    distinct and fundamental feature of Nature is
    recognized.

    VEDANTA AND SCIENCE
    T. D. Singh, Ph.D.
    … all knowledge relates to the spirit,
    or more properly, exists in it, and that
    is the sole reason for our interest in
    any field of knowledge whatsoever.
    – Erwin Schrödinger
    eternal conscious particles of the Supreme Lord. The
    fundamental qualities of the spiritual particle, or spiriton are of
    the same nature as the Supreme Lord’s and are as follows: sat
    (eternal existence), cit (full cognition), ananda (blissfulness),
    sveccha (free will) and cetana (consciousness). Vedanta
    explains that matter, however complex, will never generate life or
    its inherent symptom, consciousness.

    There are two categories
    of consciousness: God’s consciousness is universal (all
    pervasive) whereas the spiriton’s consciousness is localized and
    always remains so but both are ontologically non physical in
    nature.
  2. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    12 Oct '10 08:511 edit
    continued

    The Law of Karma, Free Will and The Three Modes of
    Material Nature
    Vedanta states that the material nature is broadly divided into
    three modes (gunas)— sattva (goodness), rajas (passion) and
    tamas (ignorance). In order to accommodate the different desiresof the living entities (spiritons), the material nature, by the will of
    the Lord, manifests a variety of forms through the mixing of the
    three modes of nature. All embodied spiritons—human beings,
    animals, birds, plants, etc., are influenced to different degrees by
    the three modes of material nature. [2] Any activity that the
    spiriton performs under the influence of the three modes of
    material nature, either psychologically or physically is known in
    Sanskrit as karma - action. In the Vedantic tradition there is the
    concept of a natural ‘Law of Karma.’
    The law of karma is similar to the rules of action and reaction in
    Newton’s Law. All spiritons are engaged in different activities
    within this cosmic manifestation. From time immemorial the
    spiritons are enjoying or suffering the fruits of their activities
    according to the law of karma. The results of the law of karma
    are singular and pointed and there cannot be any error in them.
    The answer to the question, ‘why bad things happen to good
    people?’ is ‘karma’. The law of karma remains although an
    individual may not remember the action that has caused the
    current reaction. The wheels of karma are driven by the free will
    and desire of the embodied spiritons. It is difficult to deny that we
    all have free will although it cannot be detected in a laboratory.

    Professor Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate in Physics says,
    “Many scientists will say, ‘I can’t believe in religion.’ On the other
    hand, if you ask them, do you think you have some free will,
    almost every scientist instinctively thinks so. He has free will. He
    can choose some things. He can decide to go this way or that
    way. There is, in fact, no room for free will in present scientific
    laws and yet almost every scientist essentially assumes he has
    it.” [3]
    In regards to modern science’s inability to explain free will which
    Vedanta describes as a fundamental quality of the individual
    spiriton or life, Roger Penrose, the world renowned
    mathematician from Oxford University, has expressed, “The
    issue of ‘responsibility’ raises deep philosophical questions
    concerning the ultimate causes of our behavior. … Is the matter
    of ‘responsibility’ merely one of the convenience of terminology,
    or is there actually something else – a ‘self’ lying beyond all suchinfluences – which exerts a control over our actions?

    The legal issue of ‘responsibility’ seems to imply that there is, indeed,
    within each of us, some kind of an independent ‘self’ with its own
    responsibilities – and, by implications, rights – whose actions are
    not attributable to inheritance, environment, or chance. If it is
    other than a mere convenience of language that we speak as
    though there were such an independent ‘self’, then there must be
    an ingredient missing from our present-day physical
    understandings.
    The discovery of such an ingredient would
    surely profoundly alter our scientific outlook. … it will tell us to
    broaden our view as to the very nature of what a ‘cause’ might
    be. A ‘cause’ could be something that cannot be computed in
    practice or in principle. … when a ‘cause’ is the effect of our
    conscious actions, then it must be something very subtle,
    certainly beyond computation, beyond chaos, and also beyond
    any purely random influences.

    Whether such a concept of‘cause’ could lead us any closer to an understanding of theprofound issue of our free wills is a matter for the future.” [4]
    Free will is a quality of the life particle or spiriton and by
    exercising free will an individual performs actions and is
    implicated in various reactions according to the law of karma.

    The use of free will either appropriately or inappropriately will
    decide the course of life’s journey. Vedanta describes that all
    other forms of life below the level of human consciousness
    cannot escape the chain of karma under normal circumstances.
    Therefore, Vedanta emphasizes that the human race has an obligation to protect and guide not only mankind but also all
    lower forms of life.

    Biodiversity and Evolution of Consciousness
    According to modern biology, biodiversity is due to a genetic
    variation caused by the process of occasional chance mutation.
    However, according to Vedanta, the law of karma and the three
    modes of material nature — sattva, rajas and tamas — are
    responsible for biodiversity as well as for diversity in terms of
    levels of intelligence, degree of development of mind and
    consciousness of the embodied being within the same species.

    Furthermore, the Vedas state that biodiversity is a process to
    accommodate the various states of consciousness in different life
    forms. There is a gradual evolution of consciousness through
    various species of life according to the subtle laws of karma.
    These life forms are said to number 8.4 x 106 and include –
    microorganisms, insects, plants, aquatics, birds, reptiles,
    animals, humanoids and human beings. [5] According to the
    conscious evolutionary cosmic time scale, one gets the human
    form of life after passing through millions of varieties of life forms.
    Vedanta further explains that many life forms manifest
    simultaneously. In other words, genetic variation is already within
    a cosmic plan. Nobel Laureate Werner Arber’s observation that
    genetic mutation is not due to error or mistake is in line with the
    Vedantic conception. He says, “Evolution does not occur on the
    basis of errors, accidents or the action of selfish genetic
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    12 Oct '10 09:161 edit
    I would say I am one of your better comrades on here so let me be honest with you.
    I'm not going to read all that. I'd rather you point out one or two points and then maybe flesh out a discussion.
    If you want to get through to people, it is probably better to keep it short. At least they will read one or two sentences which is better than skipping the whole thing.
    I know you probably think that a "thinking person" would not be so lame as to think your post is too long, but the fact remains. Do you want to get a sentence or two through to some people or do you want to write a better, longer version and have no one read it?
  4. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    12 Oct '10 10:52
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I would say I am one of your better comrades on here so let me be honest with you.
    I'm not going to read all that. I'd rather you point out one or two points and then maybe flesh out a discussion.
    If you want to get through to people, it is probably better to keep it short. At least they will read one or two sentences which is better than skipping th ...[text shortened]... ugh to some people or do you want to write a better, longer version and have no one read it?
    Yes i see your point, but many people will buy a fiction book of 600 pages and be glad to sit and read it, so a cut and paste taking 5 minutes to read, shouldnt be a problem if the person is interested in spirituality.....after all this is the spirituality forum.

    I have also posted short comments and have recieved an avalanche of slander, so cut and paste is quicker, and I am less attached to it, whether someone reads or not.
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    12 Oct '10 11:19
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Yes i see your point, but many people will buy a fiction book of 600 pages and be glad to sit and read it, so a cut and paste taking 5 minutes to read, shouldnt be a problem if the person is interested in spirituality.....after all this is the spirituality forum.

    I have also posted short comments and have recieved an avalanche of slander, so cut and paste is quicker, and I am less attached to it, whether someone reads or not.
    the fact that it is posted by an obtuse fellow like yourself and double pasted at some points isn't helping either. also adding those scientists' quotes is kind of a propaganda move. did albert einstein refer exactly to your religion? or was it spirituality in general. or you are just stating what they said and follow up with reasons why your religion and none others comply?


    nobody will ever take you seriously if you call everyone deluded fools who follow false religions(including atheism) and that you alone hold the ultimate truth. truth that is in such a way superior that it cannot be improved from other lines of thinking.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    12 Oct '10 13:06
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Yes i see your point, but many people will buy a fiction book of 600 pages and be glad to sit and read it, so a cut and paste taking 5 minutes to read, shouldnt be a problem if the person is interested in spirituality.....after all this is the spirituality forum.

    I have also posted short comments and have recieved an avalanche of slander, so cut and paste is quicker, and I am less attached to it, whether someone reads or not.
    And I see your point, but as Zhalanzi has pointed out, you already have a tarnished reputation amongst some other posters here, so long cut and pastes may not be the way to go.
    Really dude, you have to be able to defend your cut and pastes. Each and every sentence, otherwise you lose before even starting. So I thought it would be easier to make a shorter quote, that you are familiar with, and then you would have more of a chance at showing us the truth in the beautifully inspired writings that are the Vendata.
  7. Standard memberDasa
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    12 Oct '10 22:22
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    the fact that it is posted by an obtuse fellow like yourself and double pasted at some points isn't helping either. also adding those scientists' quotes is kind of a propaganda move. did albert einstein refer exactly to your religion? or was it spirituality in general. or you are just stating what they said and follow up with reasons why your religion and n ...[text shortened]... truth that is in such a way superior that it cannot be improved from other lines of thinking.
    I alone dont hold ultimate truth, but Vedanta alone does.

    All other religions are fabracated, and are hit and miss on truth.

    To appreciate Vedanta, their is a process, just like if you want to appreciate nuclear physics, you would have to throw yourself into a 6 year study program to appreciate it......and we find people googling Vedanta for 15 minutes, and then making their all knowing comments.

    That is not the way to evaluate Vedanta.

    The double paste was a mistake, i hit the paste button twice, why do you pick up on such a small trivial detail, could you not evaluate that it may be a mistake also.
  8. Joined
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    13 Oct '10 14:12
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    I alone dont hold ultimate truth, but Vedanta alone does.

    All other religions are fabracated, and are hit and miss on truth.

    To appreciate Vedanta, their is a process, just like if you want to appreciate nuclear physics, you would have to throw yourself into a 6 year study program to appreciate it......and we find people googling Vedanta for 15 minu ...[text shortened]... ou pick up on such a small trivial detail, could you not evaluate that it may be a mistake also.
    nothing ever will hold the ultimate truth. anything can be improved. the world changes so any system of beliefs should change. not to mention that like most spiritual texts your vedanta allows more than one interpretation.


    no spiritual progress can be achieved if you believe you have the perfect spiritual system.
  9. Standard memberDasa
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    13 Oct '10 15:25
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    nothing ever will hold the ultimate truth. anything can be improved. the world changes so any system of beliefs should change. not to mention that like most spiritual texts your vedanta allows more than one interpretation.


    no spiritual progress can be achieved if you believe you have the perfect spiritual system.
    Your assumption is incorrect, Vedanta is the only perfect and faultless teaching on God and life, it has nothing to do with Christianity,Islam, Judaism. or any other fabricated religion.
  10. Standard memberDasa
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    13 Oct '10 15:311 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    And I see your point, but as Zhalanzi has pointed out, you already have a tarnished reputation amongst some other posters here, so long cut and pastes may not be the way to go.
    Really dude, you have to be able to defend your cut and pastes. Each and every sentence, otherwise you lose before even starting. So I thought it would be easier to make a shor ...[text shortened]... of a chance at showing us the truth in the beautifully inspired writings that are the Vendata.
    yes you are right, but I am getting tired of discussing with people, who really dont want to know, but just like playing mind games.

    When a person exposes peoples false beliefs, they will always get a tarnished record, because its called upsetting the apple cart.

    And my future cut and paste, shall be for the one person out there, who enjoys the read.
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    13 Oct '10 16:32
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I would say I am one of your better comrades on here so let me be honest with you.
    I'm not going to read all that. I'd rather you point out one or two points and then maybe flesh out a discussion.
    If you want to get through to people, it is probably better to keep it short. At least they will read one or two sentences which is better than skipping th ...[text shortened]... ugh to some people or do you want to write a better, longer version and have no one read it?
    The guy is a troll, don't waste your time by feeding him.

    seriously...
  12. Joined
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    14 Oct '10 14:38
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Your assumption is incorrect, Vedanta is the only perfect and faultless teaching on God and life, it has nothing to do with Christianity,Islam, Judaism. or any other fabricated religion.
    why is vedanta perfect? why is my assumption that any teaching can be improved incorrect?
  13. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    15 Oct '10 03:57
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I would say I am one of your better comrades on here so let me be honest with you.
    I'm not going to read all that. I'd rather you point out one or two points and then maybe flesh out a discussion.
    If you want to get through to people, it is probably better to keep it short. At least they will read one or two sentences which is better than skipping th ...[text shortened]... ugh to some people or do you want to write a better, longer version and have no one read it?
    I concur. The cut sand paste approach is tedious and dilutes any message to be conveyed.

    I'd rather beat myself in the nuts with a claw hammer than read page after page of cut and paste blabiddy blah.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    15 Oct '10 12:05
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    I concur. The cut sand paste approach is tedious and dilutes any message to be conveyed.

    I'd rather beat myself in the nuts with a claw hammer than read page after page of cut and paste blabiddy blah.
    I too have been guilty of quoting several paragraphs out of a book, however I did not cut and paste. Furhturmore my posts were just info-there was no claim that this wa the absolute truth and that all other views were flawed,
  15. Joined
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    15 Oct '10 13:14
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    I concur. The cut sand paste approach is tedious and dilutes any message to be conveyed.

    I'd rather beat myself in the nuts with a claw hammer than read page after page of cut and paste blabiddy blah.
    depends on the text

    however if the first few paragraphs dont offer anything, fuk it.

    in this case i made it through to about half of it. it was pretty annoying how famous scientists got quoted but nobody knows for sure if they really were quoting on vedanta or just randomly about spirituality and vish or the authot of the excerpt hijacked the article.
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