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    09 Aug '05 12:46
    To my knowledge, Lincoln never said, "I am President."

    Sure he acted like he was, and he had a few followers. But he also had many who didn't attribute presidential authority to him.

    If I have have overlooked the many first-hand speeches where Honest Abe said, "I am President," please correct me and accept my apology. But until you present me with a reliable, first-hand account, with the phrase, "I am President," signed and sealed by Abe himself within a reasonble time period relative to when he was supposed to have ruled, I don't think we should be hailing him as such a great leader.
  2. London
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    09 Aug '05 12:51
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    To my knowledge, Lincoln never said, "I am President."

    Sure he acted like he was, and he had a few followers. But he also had many who didn't attribute presidential authority to him.

    If I have have overlooked the many first-hand speeches where Honest Abe said, "I am President," please correct me and accept my apology. But until you present me ...[text shortened]... n he was supposed to have ruled, I don't think we should be hailing him as such a great leader.
    This belongs in the "Debates" forum.
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Aug '05 12:59
    Maybe the King is trying to make a point about the historicity of Christ or some such. Anyhow, you'll probably find a few documents signed by Abe in his presidential capacity which should be proof that he was president.
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    09 Aug '05 13:05
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Maybe the King is trying to make a point about the historicity of Christ or some such. Anyhow, you'll probably find a few documents signed by Abe in his presidential capacity which should be proof that he was president.
    "Probably" and "should" don't give me much confidence. Maybe the slaves never were freed. If Lincoln claimed to have the authority to do that, I would like a little assurance that it was legit.

    But just because he did things in a "presidential capacity," this is not the same as him saying "I am President." Please provide me with a source to find these few documents that probably say "I am President."
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Aug '05 13:08
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    "Probably" and "should" don't give me much confidence. Maybe the slaves never were freed. If Lincoln claimed to have the authority to do that, I would like a little assurance that it was legit.

    But just because he did things in a "presidential capacity," this is not the same as him saying "I am President." Please provide me with a source to find these few documents that probably say "I am President."
    Quite frankly I couldn't be bothered. Why is it so important to you?
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    09 Aug '05 13:14
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Quite frankly I couldn't be bothered. Why is it so important to you?
    Who is supposed to have made the Emancipation Proclamation? If it was never made by any one of authority, then our black brothers and sisters might still be in bondage. That bothers me.
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Aug '05 13:17
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    Who is supposed to have made the Emancipation Proclamation? If it was never made by any one of authority, then our black brothers and sisters might still be in bondage. That bothers me.
    I like where you're going with this, although I fear you are treading the path of paranoia. What other consequences of Abe never having been President do you fear?
  8. Donationrwingett
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    09 Aug '05 13:38
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    "Probably" and "should" don't give me much confidence. Maybe the slaves never were freed. If Lincoln claimed to have the authority to do that, I would like a little assurance that it was legit.

    But just because he did things in a "presidential capacity," this is not the same as him saying "I am President." Please provide me with a source to find these few documents that probably say "I am President."
    If I were to say, "I am Napoleon", does that mean I am Napoleon? My word on the matter means little. Likewise with Mr. Lincoln in this regard. I wouldn't want his personal testimony to establish whether he was President or not. I would want evidence and testimony from a multiplicity of sources independant from Mr. Lincoln to confirm the status of his Presidency. Fortunately, we have such an abundance of material at our disposal. We can therefore say with confidence that Abraham Lincoln was once President of the United States. And the extant speeches of Mr. Lincoln can then be viewed in that context.
  9. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Aug '05 13:40
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If I were to say, "I am Napoleon", does that mean I am Napoleon?
    You aren't Napoleon?
  10. Donationrwingett
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    09 Aug '05 13:45
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    You aren't Napoleon?
    I am, if you'll take my word as the gospel truth, and don't consider any independant sources.
  11. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    09 Aug '05 13:47
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I am, if you'll take my word as the gospel truth, and don't consider any independant sources.
    Pleased ta meet ya, Bony. You can call me Petronius.
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    09 Aug '05 13:48
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I like where you're going with this, although I fear you are treading the path of paranoia. What other consequences of Abe never having been President do you fear?
    As far as other conesequences go, I'd hate to discover that our currency and our history books are praising a fraud. Maybe later generations made him out to be this great "president" that he never intended to be. Perhpas he did want to free the slaves, and because of this great action we have made an idol out of him, forcing him into the role of president that he never claimed for himself.
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    09 Aug '05 13:51
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If I were to say, "I am Napoleon", does that mean I am Napoleon? My word on the matter means little. Likewise with Mr. Lincoln in this regard. I wouldn't want his personal testimony to establish whether he was President or not. I would want evidence and testimony from a multiplicity of sources independant from Mr. Lincoln to confirm the status of his Pre ...[text shortened]... f the United States. And the extant speeches of Mr. Lincoln can then be viewed in that context.
    What is the evidence and testimony that we have? Please elaborate.
  14. Donationrwingett
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    09 Aug '05 13:54
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    What is the evidence and testimony that we have? Please elaborate.
    Do your own research.
  15. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    09 Aug '05 13:54
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    To my knowledge, Lincoln never said, "I am President."

    Sure he acted like he was, and he had a few followers. But he also had many who didn't attribute presidential authority to him.

    If I have have overlooked the many first-hand speeches where Honest Abe said, "I am President," please correct me and accept my apology. But until you present me ...[text shortened]... n he was supposed to have ruled, I don't think we should be hailing him as such a great leader.
    From Lincoln's acceptance speech, 1860.

    So here I am running for president. And people ask me, they say, what's this election all about, Abe? I'll tell you what it's about. It's about opportunity....

    He ran, and he won. I guess he also liked to say 'Whatever'.

    More at http://www.wesclark.com/jw/linc_sp.html

    P-


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