We Can Bring Christ Back

Originally posted by bill718
An interesting thought, but I would suggest that Jesus Christ does not need our help, he will return at the perfect time, and that will be the time of HIS choosing.

Suppose Daniel in the Babylonian captivity had had that thought ?

Daniel looked into the prophecy of Jeremiah and noticed that the Jews would be in captivity for 70 years. Why didn't Daniel just sit and wait ?

Why didn't Daniel just say "Well, God said through Jeremiah that He would release the Jews from captivity in 70 years. No need for us to do anything but just wait." ?

No, no, no, Daniel, the man of God, did not have this passive attitude. He began to pray. He prayed three times a day in his upper room. He opened his windows to the city Jerusalem while captive in Babylon.

They tried to conspire to stop him from praying. Satan is not so stupid if man is. So they conspired to make a law that for a period of time no one could pray to his god in order to honor the king of Babylon.

Again, it would have been convenient for Daniel to just comply and stop praying. Afterall, God will fulfill His promise quite without his doing anything. Right ?

Wrong. Daniel continued his daily prayers to God and it won him a night's stay in the lion's den. Thankfully Daniel survived the night in the lion's den and the conspirators were thrown into it instead, being crushed before they hit the ground.

God is seeking today a corporate Daniel.
God is seeking a collective Daniel who will petition Him concerning His own will.

"And concerning the work of My hands, command Me." (See Isaiah 45:11)

Did ALL the people return to the Good Land from Babylon? No. But a REMNANT did.

You better get familiar with God's ways.

Porthole. Jesus Christ needs a porthole to return to earth. People like you should not be laughing at the JWs for building a house in San Deigo for the returning saints. You and the JWs are on the same level of stupidity. As if God needs the help of man for the return of Christ or saints. The arrogance of some people. The Bible is clear that God will send Christ when He is good and ready. The state the world is in is of no relevance.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Porthole. Jesus Christ needs a porthole to return to earth. People like you should not be laughing at the JWs for building a house in San Deigo for the returning saints. You and the JWs are on the same level of stupidity. As if God needs the help of man for the return of Christ or saints. The arrogance of some people. The Bible is clear that God will send Christ when He is good and ready. The state the world is in is of no relevance.

Here again we have a display of the same natural concept void of revelation from the Holy Bible.

Now don't take the porthole comment too seriously. Christ physical coming is mysterious. Heaven, from which He comes, is SOMEWHERE.

The MAIN point is that the Apostle Peter said the followers of Jesus not only EXPECT the coming of the day of God but HASTEN it as well.

"Expecting and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heaens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements, burning with intense heat, are to be melted away." (2 Peter 5:12)

The point here is not exactly what prophecy this refers to. The point I make is that Peter said "expecting and HASTENING" the fulfillment of that promise.

Cooperation of man with God is what God seeks.

The wonderful thing is that by you opening your heart to Christ and receiving Him you are cooperating with something much larger than yourself. And to turn over more of your soul to His sanctification process is also furnishing Him with a beach head on the planet for His coming back.

You don't understand these things and you're a teacher of the Bible ?

Christ comes for His Bride, His lovers. And the book of Revelation says that the Bride has PREPARED HERSELF.

Revelation 19:7 - "Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."

Jesus does not want to marry a teenager. He wants to marry a mature and grown up woman. That is a corporate woman, the church. And Jesus Christ will come when a remnant have gone ahead to make themselves ready.

He is coming for the wife who makes herself ready.

Now some Christians will protest. "How can only some of the church be ready to marry Jesus ?"

Do not argue with me. Though Paul said we all will arrive he did not say we all will arrive at the same time. We all will eventually arrive. But some will arrive early and some will arrive latter.

I want to be one to arrive early rather than late. At any rate the Lord Jesus Comes for His corporate lover, His romantic collective wife. And rather than passively do nothing, she should bother serve Him and also make herself READY.

" ... and His wife has made herself ready."

Originally posted by Rajk999
Porthole. Jesus Christ needs a porthole to return to earth. People like you should not be laughing at the JWs for building a house in San Deigo for the returning saints. You and the JWs are on the same level of stupidity. As if God needs the help of man for the return of Christ or saints. The arrogance of some people. The Bible is clear that God will send Christ when He is good and ready. The state the world is in is of no relevance.

Please indicate where we have stated that God needs the support of man to carry out his purposes? seems to me that once again you are blinded by prejudice and make the most ludicrous assertions on that basis. Then again when Christ does return perhaps we will be able to see these spiritual Israelites that seem to be whispering abroad the excellencies of the one who called them out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
I agree. Does anyone think that we can cause God to do what we want, in our time.

I agree. Does anyone think that we can cause God to do what we want, in our time.

Let us look at this matter soberly. Now we may not be able to dictate to God the TIME. But we can participate in laying the "tracks" down for the great engine of His will to move.

This is all I am saying. Listen please. The Lord Jesus said that His Father would not only answer prayer. He would also REWARD or REPAY prayer.

Right here -

" But you, when you pray, enter into your private room, and shut your door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you." (Matt. 6:4)

This is not just the Father answering prayer. This is the Father repaying prayer.

So one prays - "Oh Lord Jesus, come back Lord to this earth. There is much injustice and war. There is much disease and famine. There are the stealing of children and the slavery of kidnapping, the drugs, the fornication, the disintegration of families. And the divisions among your own people. Lord Jesus Come. Lord Jesus Come as you promised. I ask not for my own selfish sake. Lord, as Joshua said 'What will you do for your great name?' Lord Jesus Come, even in my lifetime. But if not Lord Jesus Come Soon."

Jesus said that God will answer prayer and "REPAY" prayer.

HOW DO YOU KNOW that your humble petition was not the last one to cause the living God to act ? We should not presume to have little faith.

Our prayers may not dictate to God the precise time. But they tip the scales. Especially they tip the scales if we gather in small groups of twos and threes, in Christian love, praying for His will.

I say you may not be able to dictate that Christ come this afternoon. But I believe it will influence Him to see in your hearts the heart of His Birde - to come quickly. One day He will answer. But more than that, in His kingdom He will reward your prayer. He will repay your prayer.

What a wonderful thing to live for and have faith in.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." (Matt. 5:6)

This question is for the Bible students. There is some skepticism here.

"How can man influence God to act as if He needed us ?"

This is the flavor of not a few reactions. If you are a Bible reader then I would ask you this -

WHY were the disciples together praying for ten days before the day of Pentecost ? Why were they praying ? Why didn't they just go home and tend to their hum drum lives ?

I mean Jesus had given them a promise - "And behold, I send forth the promise of My Father upon you; but as for you, stay in the city until you put on power from on high." (Luke 24:49)

He just told them to wait. There was no specific instruction to pray. The one hundred and twenty disciples there in the upper room. They could just say "Well, we are expecting something from the Father. We will just WAIT. No need to do anything."

They did not just do this. In spite of the fact that no explicit instruction was given for them to pray, the DID pray.

I suspect that before they prayed the had to forgive one another for various offenses they had with each other. Probably John and Peter rubbed each other the wrong way. Probably Nathaniel and Matthew had frequent misunderstandings. The others were irritated with James and John. I am sure they had many offenses between them.

They probably began to confess to one another and to the Lord. Soon they were all praying rather than just passively and religiously WAITING. And the Holy Spirit came upon them mightily.

"These all continued steadfastly with one accord in prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers." (Acts 1:14)

There were not THOUSANDS gathered. There were only 120 disciples. What happen to all those whom Jesus had healed and cast demons out of ?

Only a remnant was there for God's economical move, for God's turning the age to a new age. Today it is similar. God needs a dispensational instrument to echo His will to turn the age to a new age. That is from the church age to the kingdom age.

Those 120 did not just sit and wait. They first reconciled themselves with one another. Then somehow they began to petition the Lord about His promise. And ---

"And as the day of Pentecost was being fulfilled, they were all togehr in the same place. And suddenly there was a sound out of heaven, as of a rushing violent wind, and it filled the house where they were sitting ..." (Acts 2:1,2)

This was God changing the age. The was God initiating the beginning of the indestructible Christian church. The age had been changed. And it was changed with the prompting of the disciples expecting and hastening His promise.

God's promise needs man's echo on earth.
God's will needs man's reflection, desiring and petitioning God's will on earth.

Originally posted by sonship

I agree. Does anyone think that we can cause God to do what we want, in our time.

Let us look at this matter soberly. Now we may not be able to dictate to God the TIME. But we can participate in laying the "tracks" down for the great engine of His will to move.

This is all I am saying. Listen please. The Lord Jesus said that His Fa ...[text shortened]... re those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." (Matt. 5:6) [/b]

I applaud this thread, jaywill.

Too many Christians are simply afraid to leave their comfort zone.

Don't let their derision deter you.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I applaud this thread, jaywill.

Too many Christians are simply afraid to leave their comfort zone.

Don't let their derision deter you.

Thank you sister. I understand the reaction of some. But they really should go back and re-read the word of God. He is still the same.

This thread will go into the mysterious book of Revelation. But today this book has been opened up to God's people very very much. I will be making some matter in it very clear.

Maybe you'll get a preview. We are talking about God's believers ON EARTH echoing and corresponding in their hearts and petitions with what God desires to do - with what He promised to do.

Now grasp this scene in Revelation for I will discuss it.

This is at the opening of the seventh seal -

" And when He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trunpets were given to them.

And another Angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer, and much incense was given to Him to offer with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

And the smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of the saints out of the hand of the Angel before God. "

Full stop. Briefly, the silence in heaven is a silence of solemnity. It is a solemn time because the age is about to be changed. And old age is coming to a conclusion and a new age is on the verge of commencing. It is a sober and solemn moment in heaven.

The Angel is the Angel of Jehovah. It is Christ the Son of God and God incarnate. But I do not dwell on that right now. The main point is that He brings the PRAYERS of His saints before the throne of God. And the incense is also Christ. The incense is the thing within the prayers which make them acceptable and pleasing to God. And only Jesus Christ is acceptable and pleasing to God.

The meaning is that the saints ON EARTH who have Christ wrought into them offer prayers which are acceptable. Not just any prayers are acceptable or AS acceptable. God seeks the fragrance of those who are living in oneness with His Son. They gain the "incense" which ascends up with their prayers.

Now here is the reaction in heaven to the acceptable Jesus frangranced prayers offered to God:

"And the smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of the saints out of the hand of the Angel before God.

And the Angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar and cast it to the earth, and there were thunders and voices and lightenings and an earthquake.

AND ... the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to trumpet." (Rev. 8:4-6)

What we have to grasp here is that the prayers of the saints who have the fragrance of Jesus cause a divine reaction. The cosmos begins to react as Christ does something to show that the answer to their prayers is coming. The fire of the altar represents the fire from the consecration unto God. The voices, the earthquake, the lightening are God beginning to change the age into the last days - days of natural and supernatural calamities preceding the great tribulation and the second coming of Jesus.

Christ casts fire down to the earth. But He does so in response to the prayers ascending to God from His saints on earth.

There's more. We can bring Christ back. The seven angels with the seven trumpets prepare to trumpet and change the age to the age of the kingdom.

Originally posted by sonship
Thank you sister. I understand the reaction of some. But they really should go back and re-read the word of God. He is still the same.

This thread will go into the mysterious book of Revelation. But today this book has been opened up to God's people very very much. I will be making some matter in it very clear.

Maybe you'll get a preview. We are tal ...[text shortened]... angels with the seven trumpets prepare to trumpet and change the age to the age of the kingdom.

This could be a whole new religion. "God exists in order to pay attention to ME! Because I'm so special!"

We could call it Me-theism®.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
This could be a whole new religion. "God exists in order to pay attention to ME! Because I'm so special!"

We could call it Me-theism®.

It already does exist, Jesus in me! its all about me and my personal salvation!

Originally posted by SwissGambit
This could be a whole new religion. "God exists in order to pay attention to ME! Because I'm so special!"

We could call it Me-theism®.

Me, Me. Me, Jaywill has been preaching that for almost a decade. I actually read where he wrote the following:
- no love is required
- sin does not matter

He is the polar opposite of Jesus Christ.

Plus he has a following. Lots of mindless sycophants continue to applaud him.

Originally posted by sonship
The principles of cooperation with God's operation will be discussed here. We humans by cooperating with the Lord Jesus can bring Him back to earth - physically.

We can bring the Lord Jesus back in His second coming. We at this stage in history can participate in this unspeakable privileged.

There are many threads about how it all began. This thread ...[text shortened]... te with the operating Triune God to afford Christ a foothold and a beach head for Him to return.

you say at some point that god will come when he wants, but we can make the transition easier for him by 'placing the tracks'.

my question is - what aspect of the transition are we making easier? this implies that god finds one thing more difficult to do than another, what is this thing?

Originally posted by SwissGambit

This could be a whole new religion. "God exists in order to pay attention to ME! Because I'm so special!"

We could call it Me-theism®.

Hmm.

This is not a legtimate complaint to me because of the corporate nature of the church. Yes God does love me. Yes God also loves you. Yes Christ died for me. Really and actually He died for me. And indeed He died for you.

On one level Christ died for me and you.
On a larger level Christ died for the church - a collective and corporate entity.

Right here -

" Husbands, love our wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of the water in the word." (Eph. 5:25)

Jesus Christ the God become our Savior and Lord, died for the church - a collective and aggregate body. So ME-ISM is swallowed up in a corporate Body of divine vertical and horizontal love.

"For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ also the church, Because we are members of His Body." (v.29)


The conclusion of the 66 books of divine revelation is with a marriage of Christ and the New Jerusalem. It is not a conclusion of Christ and ME. It is not a conclusion of "Us Four and No More."

He died for me for He is God in man - " ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20c) says the Apostle Paul. So it is personal, yes. However, I am only a constituent in His larger purpose to have a aggregate Lover - a corporate Bride and Wife.

Untold millions, probably billions constitute that consumate Bride - New Jerusalem.

In fact to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior on the grounds that you realize you are just a member of this larger entity would be an EXCELLENT foundation for the Christian faith.

Ie. "Lord Jesus, I thank you that you loved me and died and rose for me. But Lord Jesus I receive you for the sake of your eternal purpose to have a corporate and consummate collective [b]Bride and Wife as your own Body. [/b]

That would elevate a sinner's realization beyond a purely personal matter to the level of HOW he or she fits into the eternal purpose of God.

Skeptics are funny. If it is not one problem it is the opposite.

If we talk about Christ and His church, complaints come that His plan is not tailored to one's individual needs.

But if we talk about Christ and His forgiven sinner, THEN, Oh My, "So selfish! So Me centered!"

Basically, either way, the natural mind seeks out a problem with following the Lord Jesus.

It has not changed from the days He was walking on the earth -

"And Jesus said, To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like?

They are like little children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, who say, We have played the flute to you, and you did not dance; we have sung a dirge, and you did not weep.

For John the Baptist has come neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, He has a demon.

The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners. Yet wisdom is justified by all her children." (Luke 7:32-35)


How long do you think "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" will furnish you an excuse ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Me, Me. Me, Jaywill has been preaching that for almost a decade. I actually read where he wrote the following:
- no love is required
- sin does not matter

He is the polar opposite of Jesus Christ.

Plus he has a following. Lots of mindless sycophants continue to applaud him.

Lots of mindless sycophants continue to applaud him

suzzianne