We Can Bring Christ Back

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you say at some point that god will come when he wants, but we can make the transition easier for him by 'placing the tracks'.

my question is - what aspect of the transition are we making easier? this implies that god finds one thing more difficult to do than another, what is this thing?

you say at some point that god will come when he wants, but we can make the transition easier for him by 'placing the tracks'.

Christ is coming. There is no question to us about that. He came the FIRST time in faithfulness to many prophecies. His track record is good. So He is coming.

I am saying we can take part in this coming of Christ. One way we definitely take part is by receiving His Spirit into us and allowing it to GROW and GROW and GROW up into our personalities - individually and corporately.

Look at this -

"And He said, So is the kingdom of God as if a man cast seed on the earth, And sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and lengthens- how, he does not know.

The earth bears fruit by itself: first a blade, then an ear; then full grain in the ear.

But when the fruit is RIPE, immediately he sends forth the sickle, because the HARVEST has come." (Mark 4:26-29)

You see? The kingdom is a matter of the growing of something unto MATURITY. The Kingdom of God is a matter of God's life implanted into man and growing, maturing, developing unto a harvest of ripeness.

So said I ? Not so also said the Apostle Paul about the normal practical church life -

"I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the growth. So neither is he who plants anything nor he who waters, but God who causes the growth. (v.7)

For we [apostles] are God's fellow workers; YOU are God's cultivated land, [or farm], God's building." (See 1 Cor. 3:6-7,9)


The church is a place where God is growing a crop. That crop is Christ growing in people. If you are not growing in Christ then there is something abnormal about your church experience. The new testament church is being builded up by Christ Himself growing in people.

We are God's farm - God's building.

We are headed for an eventual climaxing harvest. Now He may have to turn up the heat in the world to give Christians the INCENTIVE to sink their roots deeper into Him. But it is all for Christ growing in man.

So the second coming of Jesus Christ is also described as a ripening of a harvest on a farm.

Right here -

"And I saw, and behold, there was a white cloud, and on the cloud One like the Son of Man sitting, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, Send forth Your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come because THE HARVEST OF THE EARTH IS RIPE.

And He who sat on the cloud thrust His sickle upon the earth, and the earth was reaped." (Revelation 14:14-16)


There have been down through the centuries individual Christians here and there who reached a maturity. Now in these last days Christ is seeking a aggregate group to together and collectively reach maturity - RIPENESS.

This ripeness is not of the natural life. It is not growing in the natural man. It is allowing Christ the divine Spirit to grow, spread, increase, saturate the personalities of His forgiven people.

He is a growing life. Just like you do not know how the seed grows when you place it in the ground. So we are God's soil . We are soil created to grow God within once we are reborn in the Holy Spirit.

We need to be on the farm, the cultivated land of the normal new testament church life. But in smaller groups of two or three, in love, we may grow up into Him.

The harvest time must come. And the sickle of His second coming will reap His crop - men and women, boys and girls in whom Christ the Lord is imparted and growing.

We can cooperate with His second coming by receiving Him and allowing Him to grow. We will lose something. But what we gain is incalculably greater in value.

You will lose the Satan corrupted self. You will gain the Christ saturated new man.

If I do not participate, I will only postpone that participation to another time. If I do not assist in the transition, I will have to make it up in "summer school" in a remedial way during the kingdom millennial age.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you say at some point that god will come when he wants, but we can make the transition easier for him by 'placing the tracks'.

my question is - what aspect of the transition are we making easier? this implies that god finds one thing more difficult to do than another, what is this thing?

my question is - what aspect of the transition are we making easier? this implies that god finds one thing more difficult to do than another, what is this thing?

He cannot be stopped. He can be delayed. We can cause Him some trouble. From Genesis we see the trouble that we humans can cause Him.

But He branches OVER the wall.

Now we can seek not to slow Him down. We can seek to lay the tracks through our prayers for His will to be done and our cooperation with His Spirit filling up our soul.

No one HAS to cooperate. It is a great honor and privilege to cooperate.

In the coming age though, those who have dragged their feet will have to cooperate under a different flavor.

Now it is the age of GRACE. The next age is the age of the millennial kingdom. The flavor will be different.

Now with willingness and sweetness we can allow the Lord the use us as a dispensational instrument to turn the age.

Originally posted by sonship

my question is - what aspect of the transition are we making easier? this implies that god finds one thing more difficult to do than another, what is this thing?

He cannot be stopped. He can be delayed. We can cause Him some trouble. From Genesis we see the trouble that we humans can cause Him.

But He branches OVER the wall.

N ...[text shortened]... s and sweetness we can allow the Lord the use us as a dispensational instrument to turn the age.

i still have no idea why we have the power to 'delay' his coming. unless you mean that he is choosing not to come until a certain set of variables are met. is this what you mean? or do you mean that we are creating a barrier of some sort that christ finds it slightly harder to break through?

Originally posted by sonship
Skeptics are funny. If it is not one problem it is the opposite.

If we talk about Christ and His church, complaints come that His plan is not tailored to one's individual needs.

But if we talk about Christ and His forgiven sinner, THEN, Oh My, "So selfish! So Me centered!"

Basically, either way, the natural mind seeks out a problem with followin ...[text shortened]...


How long do you think "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" will furnish you an excuse ?

Umm, what?

Would you please remind me who made this complaint:

If we talk about Christ and His church, complaints come that His plan is not tailored to one's individual needs.

...because I don't recall making it myself.

Originally posted by sonship

[b]This could be a whole new religion. "God exists in order to pay attention to ME! Because I'm so special!"

We could call it Me-theism®.

Hmm.

This is not a legtimate complaint to me because of the corporate nature of the church. Yes God does love me. Yes God also loves you. Yes Christ died for me. Really and actually He died ...[text shortened]... ond a purely personal matter to the level of HOW he or she fits into the eternal purpose of God.[/b]

Me-theism is an attitude easily shared by a large group. It is for anyone whose favorite part of their religion is the goodies it gives them.

Originally posted by sonship

Christ is coming. There is no question to us about that. He came the FIRST time in faithfulness to many prophecies. His track record is good. So He is coming.

His track record is as good a s anyone else's.
He lived.
He died.
Hasn't come back.

That is his track record.
Exactly the same as my Great Aunt Doris.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Umm, what?

Would you please remind me who made this complaint:

If we talk about Christ and His church, complaints come that His plan is not tailored to one's individual needs.

...because I don't recall making it myself.

..because I don't recall making it myself.

Specifically you did not.
Not the "Me" of SwissGambit.

I was speaking of my experience with skeptics over the years as a group.

You do similar so reasoning as you lay out your diatribes against Christians.

And if you don't want to believe you similiarly make generalizations for the group of theists then just don't believe it.

Too much focus on "ME" , was that what you were complaining about ?

Suzzanne, the scoffers complaining about self centeredness don't know much about what they say.

The function of the praying commanding prayers is very much involved with the oneness of the believers with one another.

"Again, truly I say to you that if two of you are in harmony on earth concerning any matter for which they ask, it will be done for them from My Father who is in the heavens. " (Matt. 18:19)

In the unity, in the harmony of oneness is the power to move the hand of God.

This is why I said in these latter days, the gathering of two or three to harmonize and petition God would play a major part in the bringing of the Lord back.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
His track record is as good a s anyone else's.
He lived.
He died.
Hasn't come back.

That is his track record.
Exactly the same as my Great Aunt Doris.

His track record is as good a s anyone else's.

Better. Jesus was born in Bethlehem according to a centuries old prophecy.
Could you fulfill a prediction to be born where it was prophesied you'd be born ?

No you could not. The only alternative you have is to deny that either that such a prophesy was ever made centuries before His birth or that He was not the the person being spoken of. I reject both theories.

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, Saying, where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star at its rising and have come to worship Him.

And when Herod the kingd heart this, he was groubled and all Jerusalem with him.

And gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.

And they said to him, In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written through the prophet:

"And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, by no means are you the least among the princes of Judah; for out of you shall come forth a Ruler, One who will shepherd My people Israel." (referring to Micah 5:2)

And it doesn't matter if you come back and say Jesus is not Shepherd of Israel for the sheep at the moment are not submitting TO His shepherding. And He acted certainly as one, like Micah said - "And His goings forth are from ancient times, From the days of eternity."

Too much to be a coincidence that One speaking and acting as God from eternity claiming to be the Son of God and Messiah of Israel become a man somehow arranged to be born where it was said He would.

He lived.
He died.

And while He lived He predicted His own future. How could He arrange the time of His execution to be on the day it was ? He somehow arranged His atoning death to occur just when the Passover lamb of Exodus was to be slain.

In birth and death Jesus seemed to be exercising a divine providence which is supernatural.

Hasn't come back.

But He rose from the dead and is giving sinners more time to be saved through the Gospel.

When He does come all unsaved sinners who rejected His Gospel will think it is too soon rather than too late.

That is his track record.
Exactly the same as my Great Aunt Doris.

Ask your Aunt Doris to compare herself in this regard with Jesus Christ. Probably she has a lot more sense than you have displayed on this Forum.

Originally posted by sonship

..because I don't recall making it myself.

Specifically you did not.
Not the "Me" of SwissGambit.

I was speaking of my experience with skeptics over the years as a group.

You do similar so reasoning as you lay out your diatribes against Christians.

And if you don't want to believe you similiarly make generalizations for t ...[text shortened]... just don't believe it.

Too much focus on "ME" , was that what you were complaining about ?

Yeah, I make generalizations about theists, but I didn't make that one.

When someone corrects me, and says "no, SG, I don't believe what you attribute to me", I try to listen and update my view of their position accordingly.

I recognize that we have quite a few varieties of theist on here - "Big Tent" types, JW's, Catholics, Protestants, "Saved by Works" types, "Saved by Faith" types, etc. The main reason I use stereotypes is that I don't know everyone's opinion on every issue. I leave it to the other guy to decide if it applies to him, or not.

Originally posted by sonship

His track record is as good a s anyone else's.

Better. Jesus was born in Bethlehem according to a centuries old prophecy.
Could you fulfill a prediction to be born where it was prophesied you'd be born ?

No you could not. The only alternative you have is to deny that either that such a prophesy was ever made centuries before His bi ...[text shortened]... gard with Jesus Christ. Probably she has a lot more sense than you have displayed on this Forum.

I do not believe it is up to us Christians to do anything to hasten the return of Christ. We are only to continue to proclaim the truth of the gospel of Christ until He decides the time is right.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I do not believe it is up to us Christians to do anything to hasten the return of Christ. We are only to continue to proclaim the truth of the gospel of Christ until He decides the time is right.

Careful now, Sonship is on the Council of God. You dont want to disagree with him.

Originally posted by sonship
The principles of cooperation with God's operation will be discussed here. We humans by cooperating with the Lord Jesus can bring Him back to earth - physically.

We can bring the Lord Jesus back in His second coming. We at this stage in history can participate in this unspeakable privileged.

There are many threads about how it all began. This thread ...[text shortened]... te with the operating Triune God to afford Christ a foothold and a beach head for Him to return.

Are you just back from Christian conference?

Originally posted by sonship
Here we go again back to the beginning when God created man in His own image and said - [b]"Let THEM have dominion over" His creation.
He delights that man coordinate with Him.
Jesus Christ is the uttermost example of man and God united and moving together.
How could you be so blind ?[/b]

And this is how a cult is born. Someone deludes himself into believing they are the ones who know the way. All you need is a couple dozen fools to follow you and you can be the Kool-Aid Man. Oh yeah. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Originally posted by sonship

His track record is as good a s anyone else's.

Better. Jesus was born in Bethlehem according to a centuries old prophecy.
Could you fulfill a prediction to be born where it was prophesied you'd be born ?

No you could not. The only alternative you have is to deny that either that such a prophesy was ever made centuries before His birth or that He was not the the person being spoken of. I reject both theories.

Oh dear. You really do believe anything your church tells you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem

[i]Modern scholars question whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem,
seeing the biblical stories not as historical accounts but as symbolic
narratives invented to present the birth of Jesus as fulfillment of
prophecy and imply a connection to the lineage of King David. The
Gospel of Mark and the Gospel of John do not include a nativity narrative,
but refer to him only as being from Nazareth.[89] In a 2005 article in
Archaeology magazine, archaeologist Aviram Oshri points to an absence
of evidence of the settlement of Bethlehem near Jerusalem at the time
when Jesus was born, and postulates that Jesus was born in Bethlehem
of Galilee.