1. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    16 May '13 16:26
    Do Muslims and Christians Worship and Pray to the Same God?

    I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who in shadows and images seek [him].”

    Likewise I think we’re on solid ground in saying that the subjective intention of Muslims is to worship the one God—moreover, the one God from the line of Abrahamic revelation. Whether or not their version of that revelation is authentic or correct, that’s what they “profess to hold” to. Furthermore, some of the attributes of the God to whom they address their worship are comparable to the Christian God’s: He is one, merciful, omnipotent, and the judge of the world.

    Just as clearly, though, we cannot say that the God in whom Muslims profess to believe is theologically identical to the Christian God. For the most obvious example, their God is a “lonely God,” as Chesterton put it, whereas ours is a Trinity of persons. Beyond that difference, in the divine economy our Gods are also quite different: most pointedly in that ours took human nature to himself and dwelt among us on earth, whereas the Muslim God remains pure transcendence. To Muslims the idea of an incarnation is blasphemy.

    And so perhaps we can distinguish between worship of God and belief in him, the former being more about the intent of the worshiper and the latter being more about the object of belief himself. Thus could Gerhard Müller, bishop emeritus of Regensburg and since last year the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, assert in 2007 that Muslims and Christians “do not believe in the same God,” and yet not contradict any magisterial teaching.

    Of course, Jews believe in an utterly transcendent and “lonely” God, too; the idea that Jesus was God’s son, Yahweh incarnate, was likewise blasphemous to the Jews of his day. Is their theology as deficient as Islam’s? Ought we to put them in the same category as Muslims: subjectively worshiping the one God but believing in him, as least partly, in error?


    http://www.catholic.com/blog/todd-aglialoro/christians-muslims-and-the-one-god

    http://grace-and-truth.org/AM-DoMuslimsAndChristiansPrayToSameGod-Booklet.htm
  2. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    16 May '13 16:513 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do Muslims and Christians Worship and Pray to the Same God?

    [b]I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who ...[text shortened]... and-the-one-god

    http://grace-and-truth.org/AM-DoMuslimsAndChristiansPrayToSameGod-Booklet.htm
    Here is the thing: a real god would not set up a religion that would have people killing each other over religion. That I firmly believe to my dying day. That has to mean there is 1: more than one god, where they compete with each other for the following of the most humans they can dupe, or

    there is no god, where the entire edifice of religion is just made up by men who merely want political control of entire populations, which has worked out incredibly well, with billions of people duped by one religion or the other.

    BTW, you know full well about my desire to have freedom FROM religion.

    I had another case of religion shoved in my face yesterday at a court hearing for a family matter. This twit stenographer tells us to raise our right hand and agree everything we say will be the truth under the great god who controls everything and is all to us, something like that, extending the normal court saying to a full paragraph about the greatness of god. I had to maintain a calm exterior if I didn't want to bias the judge into going against our wishes but inside I was fuming at this flagrant introduction of religious bullshyte into a courtroom setting. I SO wanted to just respond 'where do you get off sticking your obvious own religious dogma into a simple courtroom statement about saying the truth? I didn't though, but today I am still seething at that religious affront.

    It ticks me off to even have to acknowledge the usual 'what you say is the truth and nothing but the truth so help you god' or however it goes.

    Exactly what good does it do to place your hand on a bible if you are agnostic or atheist and go blah blah blah 'so help me god'? Exactly how is that going to extract truth out of a testimony? The whole thing is just BS. A liar is not going to all of a sudden change his story because he has his hand on the bible. The whole thing is ridiculous.

    It goes 180 degrees away from the idea there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

    But there it is, CHURCH crap right in the middle of millions of court proceedings.

    Of course, the billions of duped ones will get all teary eyed and totally agree to tell the truth because they know that commandment not to lie.

    Please let me go off somewhere to puke.
  3. Joined
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    16 May '13 17:01
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do Muslims and Christians Worship and Pray to the Same God?

    [b]I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who ...[text shortened]... and-the-one-god

    http://grace-and-truth.org/AM-DoMuslimsAndChristiansPrayToSameGod-Booklet.htm
    just because you disagree on the details doesnt make it a different god.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    16 May '13 19:091 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Here is the thing: a real god would not set up a religion that would have people killing each other over religion. That I firmly believe to my dying day. That has to mean there is 1: more than one god, where they compete with each other for the following of the most humans they can dupe, or

    there is no god, where the entire edifice of religion is just ma ecause they know that commandment not to lie.

    Please let me go off somewhere to puke.
    You sound. like a coward. You should have just told them you were an atheist and did not believe in the God BS, and I am sure they would have accommodated you.

    God set up laws and rules for the good of His creatures. It was man that turned it into a religion. And like you said, other men with different persuasions set up competing religions from the first to draw some away to their side, just like Satan did in Heaven to deceive a third of the angels of God. This was the reason Jesus was always in disagreement with the Pharisees, because they wanted the people to follow there rules instead of God's rules.

    But I am almost certain you are not willing to stand up to government powers and authorities and fight for your own freedom. You are only interested in preventing us Christians from having our freedom to believe and do as we please.

    The Instructor
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
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    16 May '13 19:11
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    just because you disagree on the details doesnt make it a different god.
    That would depend on the details.

    The Instructor
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    16 May '13 19:14
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    That would depend on the details.

    The Instructor
    no, not really. if the root is the same then it doesnt matter what branch you are sat on you are still sat in the same tree.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
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    16 May '13 21:43
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    no, not really. if the root is the same then it doesnt matter what branch you are sat on you are still sat in the same tree.
    I am not talking about trees.

    The Instructor
  8. Standard memberKepler
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    16 May '13 22:18
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Do Muslims and Christians Worship and Pray to the Same God?

    [b]I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who ...[text shortened]... and-the-one-god

    http://grace-and-truth.org/AM-DoMuslimsAndChristiansPrayToSameGod-Booklet.htm
    Doesn't matter what name you hang on the sky fairy, it's still the same sky fairy. I favour Bob as a suitable sky fairy name.
  9. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    16 May '13 23:20
    Originally posted by Kepler
    Doesn't matter what name you hang on the sky fairy, it's still the same sky fairy. I favour Bob as a suitable sky fairy name.
    bob dobs?
  10. Standard membersonship
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    16 May '13 23:34
    Doesn't matter what name you hang on the sky fairy


    You like cute little cartoonish names like that "sky fairy" and "Demon Duck" (your own id tag).

    We see that you love to represent yourself to everyone here with a cute picture you call "Demon Duck." You're constantly projecting your own juvenile fetishes on to others.

    Physician heal thyself.
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    17 May '13 02:274 edits
    in short yes, exactly the same god, this is my understanding;

    Jews - Old Testament
    Christians - Old Testament, New Testament
    Muslims - Old Testament, New Testament, Koran

    they follow the same books, the old testament is shared in all 3 (i think?) they all come from a few hundred mile radius, they are very different from paganism and hinduism - when you compare the 3 with Hinduism it becomes clear how similar they are . Maybe thats a crude explanation but its how i see it. Christians and Muslims should not fight!
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 May '13 05:00
    Originally posted by e4chris
    in short yes, exactly the same god, this is my understanding;

    Jews - Old Testament
    Christians - Old Testament, New Testament
    Muslims - Old Testament, New Testament, Koran

    they follow the same books, the old testament is shared in all 3 (i think?) they all come from a few hundred mile radius, they are very different from paganism and hinduism - when y ...[text shortened]... . Maybe thats a crude explanation but its how i see it. Christians and Muslims should not fight!
    But if you answer yes that the Muslims believe on the same God as Christians, then you do not see the whole picture.

    The Jews accept parts of the Old Testament. The Jews do not accept the Son, because that is blashphemy to them, so they have neither the Father or the Son.

    The Muslims have added to and subtracted from the Holy scripture by accepting another book called the Quran or koran, which actually distorts the word of God with the word of Satan. Their God Allah has no son.

    The Christians are the only ones that accept both the Old Testament and the New Testament the way it is written as Holy Scripture and do not add to it or subtract from it. They have both the Father and Son by accepting the Son.

    The Instructor
  13. Standard memberKepler
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    17 May '13 07:36
    Originally posted by sonship
    Doesn't matter what name you hang on the sky fairy


    You like cute little cartoonish names like that "sky fairy" and "Demon Duck" (your own id tag).

    We see that you love to represent yourself to everyone here with a cute picture you call "Demon Duck." You're constantly projecting your own juvenile fetishes on to others.

    Physician heal thyself.
    How does having a picture of a cartoon duck project my fetishes onto others? I haven't stuck my duck pic next to your name or any other person's name and at least I am not arrogant enough to assume I know more than you!
  14. Standard memberKepler
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    17 May '13 07:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    But if you answer yes that the Muslims believe on the same God as Christians, then you do not see the whole picture.

    The Jews accept parts of the Old Testament. The Jews do not accept the Son, because that is blashphemy to them, so they have neither the Father or the Son.

    The Muslims have added to and subtracted from the Holy scripture by accepting an ...[text shortened]... or subtract from it. They have both the Father and Son by accepting the Son.

    The Instructor
    Well all three can't be right now can they? But which one (if any) is correct? How can one decide between the three?

    Do you have any reason (apart from pigheaded stubbornness) for preferring one version over another?
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    17 May '13 09:56
    Originally posted by Kepler
    Well all three can't be right now can they? But which one (if any) is correct? How can one decide between the three?

    Do you have any reason (apart from pigheaded stubbornness) for preferring one version over another?
    It should have been clear, even to a moran like you, that Christianity is the one that is just right. So it should be easy to decide that Christianity is the truth.

    The Instructor
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