What do you owe God?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Which is all in your imagination. It might even do you good to have an invisible friend to whom you ask questions and get answers but of course those answers are from your own mind, where you would ask questions as if there were a real god so you reference an imaginary higher power and say, what would I do if I were a god? And you mind gives you answers.

And here you are, supposedly a grown man with nothing better to do but hang out at a spirituality forum reading posts by believers?
You are either very, very bored or maybe there is more to your curiosity to being here. Perhaps you are like the moth attracted to the flame?

Originally posted by Rajk999
That is a debt. Is the word 'debt' offensive to you? I wonder why. Maybe it might unstick your OSAS and NAFS [No Accounting For Sin] nonsense.

Perhaps you should learn the meaning of the word "gift". Grow up dude.

You know, at first I thought it was just Sonhouse, but here you all are, atheists hanging out here. Are you all really that bored?
You are the oldest 12 year old's I have ever seen. You should look into getting a life!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
And here you are, supposedly a grown man with nothing better to do but hang out at a spirituality forum reading posts by believers?
You are either very, very bored or maybe there is more to your curiosity to being here. Perhaps you are like the moth attracted to the flame?

Dear Pot
And here you are, supposedly a grown man with nothing better to do but hang out at a spirituality forum reading posts by atheists?
You are either very, very bored or maybe there is more to your curiosity to being here. Perhaps you are like the moth attracted to the flame?

love Kettle

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Perhaps you should learn the meaning of the word "gift". Grow up dude.

Its not a matter of growing up but rather of understanding. Eternal life is the result of all three things together- a gift and a reward and debt all at the same time, simply because they are all different components/actions leading to one end result.

Here is a very simple example - a college degree. A rich and generous uncle sends you off to college and pays the tuition fees and books and says you dont have to repay him [thats the gift]. You still have study and work in order to pass the exams after which you will get your degree/diploma [thats the work and the reward]. While you were at college you needed money and borrowed money from the same rich uncle which he lent you [thats the debt].

God gave His Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of mankind [ Romans 5 and 6], thats the free gift which man did not work for. To benefit from that gift a simple acceptance of Christ ie to follow Him is what is required. The reward which is far in excess of what you do ie to live like Christ is what awaits the faithful followers. The debt we owe to God is what God requires of us ie our life [something you mentioned] to be lived in a certain way. There is a debt and only upon satisfactorily paying that debt can man inherit the reward.

Nobody gets the reward with mouth worship.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9 KJV)

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Dear Pot
And here you are, supposedly a grown man with nothing better to do but hang out at a spirituality forum reading posts by atheists?
You are either very, very bored or maybe there is more to your curiosity to being here. Perhaps you are like the moth attracted to the flame?

love Kettle

Ha! Touche .. except it is a spirituality forum, not an unspiritual forum.🙄

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its not a matter of growing up but rather of understanding. Eternal life is the result of all three things together- a gift and a reward and debt all at the same time, simply because they are all different components/actions leading to one end result.

Here is a very simple example - a college degree. A rich and generous uncle sends you off to college and ...[text shortened]... n they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9 KJV) [/i]

I am impressed Rajk...for the first time you actually typed out an example and very well done, I might add.
There is one little problem. You cannot compare the rich uncle scenario with salvation.
The college degree is one thing but salvation with strings attached is another.

Eph 2:4-8

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
NKJV

Do you see the past tense in these verses? Saved, raised, seated?

Eph 1:13-14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV

Believed, sealed, guarantee of our inheritance?

Do you know what the gospel means? Yes, I'm sure you do. It means "good news".
If I tell someone Jesus came and died for your sins on a cross so you can be saved, is this good news? Yes, I think so.
Now, how about "Jesus died on a cross so you can be saved, IF...
Well you see, now it is no longer good news.

If I told you I will give you 10,000 dollars for free, is that good news?
Sure, I suppose it would be...
Now if I said 10,000 dollars if you are good for a year?
Now is it still good news? I know I will slip up some where, so no, it's not good news.

Do you see the difference? God is merciful, generous, graceful, loving, magnificent in every way. He sent Jesus to die on a cross and made salvation simple with no strings attached, because he knows we will slip.

Otherwise, no one would be saved.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Ha! Touche .. except it is a spirituality forum, not an unspiritual forum.🙄

True, but on the other hand, atheism is about religion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you in any way in debt to God?

Kelly

Rom 3:24-25
4 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25
NKJV

Rom 8:32
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
NKJV

1 Cor 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
NKJV

These things are freely given by God. Salvation is a gift.
But what I owe God is a life of thanksgiving.
The closer one draws to God, the closer he draws to us and the more we fall in love with him.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You know, at first I thought it was just Sonhouse, but here you all are, atheists hanging out here. Are you all really that bored?
You are the oldest 12 year old's I have ever seen. You should look into getting a life!

Someone has to liven this place up. Imagine if it was just intra-Christian pissing contests about the true means of getting 'saved' and the usual JW-bashing. Boring!

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Someone has to liven this place up. Imagine if it was just intra-Christian pissing contests about the true means of getting 'saved' and the usual JW-bashing. Boring!

I'm glad you are all here, what would life be like without challenges?😉

I believe all of us are indebted to God, He created the universe we live in,
He holds it all together, He promotes and puts down, every good and
perfect gift comes from Him. He is a sure foundation and a present help!
Kelly

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I am impressed Rajk...for the first time you actually typed out an example and very well done, I might add.
There is one little problem. You cannot compare the rich uncle scenario with salvation.
The college degree is one thing but salvation with strings attached is another.

[b]Eph 2:4-8

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love ...[text shortened]... le with no strings attached, because he knows we will slip.

Otherwise, no one would be saved.

Its not salvation with strings but salvation with rules governing entry. If there were no rules then all of mankind would automatically be given that gift of eternal life :

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(Titus 2:11 KJV)


But all men would not be rewarded with eternal life. There are rules to follow and conditions to meet. Its not a free for all.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its not salvation with strings but salvation with rules governing entry. If there were no rules then all of mankind would automatically be given that gift of eternal life :

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(Titus 2:11 KJV)


But all men would not be rewarded with eternal life. There are rules to follow and conditions to meet. Its not a free for all.

If there were no rules then all of mankind would automatically be given that gift of eternal life :

I have to disagree here. All mankind is not automatically saved, man has to first believe from the heart and receive Jesus offer.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Ha! Touche .. except it is a spirituality forum, not an unspiritual forum.🙄

Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after.

Which is what we are debating.