@fmf saidThere is no such thing as a “fair” society - even the most loving family cannot be totally fair.
What does "fair" mean for you when talking about how you think society should organize itself?
Fairness would mean everybody has the same amount of everything - money, looks, brains. Totally impossible.
A society must be JUST, not fair. Equal treatment under the law.
Somebody once said “What is worse than the unequal treatment of equals, is the equal treatment of unequals.”
@caljust saidMoney.
Fairness would mean everybody has the same amount of everything - money, looks, brains.
That would not be my definition of fair.
I'm curious why you would suggest that?
It is fair that a man who works harder than me has more money.
It is fair that a man who has a disability has more money than me.
Looks and brains are not within the gift of society.
21 Apr 19
@caljust said"Fair" can be defined as "equal" and it can be defined as "just" too. And, clearly, they are not the same.
Fairness would mean everybody has the same amount of everything - money, looks, brains. Totally impossible.
A society must be JUST, not fair. Equal treatment under the law.
So I think you are still talking about a "fair" society when you lean towards the "justice" meaning and away from the "equality" meaning.
So perhaps in a "just" society everyone has access to, or receives, what they deserve [in return for what they give or do], for example, hard work means more wealth, better lifestyle means better health ~ and this exists alongside the "equal" treatment under the law that you mention.
That leaves the determination of what the substance of that law is.
21 Apr 19
@wolfgang59 saidI suppose I am talking about theoretical clean slates - what we get to start out with, and not necessarily what society provides.
Money.
That would not be my definition of fair.
I'm curious why you would suggest that?
Of course, money later in life depends how the individual has managed his/her money, and how much they started out with.
The person that comes into the world with a huge inheritance as opposed to the one who inherits their parents’ debt, are not on equal terms, and that is not “fair” (on a cosmic scale, rather than a society scale).
I just wanted to throw this spanner in the works to say life (in general) is not fair. We all get dealt different hands, and we must do the best we can.
A “fair” society should merely enable each member to do the best they can with what they have. (Money, looks, brains)
21 Apr 19
@FMF
Further to the subject of money and fairness, I recall a story my mother told me about the hyperinflation in Germany between the World Wars.
Money lost its value basically overnight. I still have stamps overprinted with amounts like 500,000 Marks.
In 1923 the US dollar was worth 4,210,500,000,000 German Marks (Wikipedia)
As a part of financial reform, the German government abolished the DM and introduced the Renten Mark. Every adult was issued with 200 RM. So there was one day in Germany when everybody had exactly the same amount of money.
Needless to say, on the very next day, some had 210 and others had 190 RM. And so it goes.
@fmf saidA fair society is like a colony of ants. Everyone has function and they do it.
What does "fair" mean for you when talking about how you think society should organize itself?
Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. (Proverbs 6:6-8 KJV)
It is not possible for any human society to be any fairer than it is now. Maybe a little adjustment here and there.
21 Apr 19
@sonship saidPeople can make what they want of my "underlying opinion".
@FMF
As they explore this question of yours where should they look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?
What do you think "fair" means, in practical terms, when talking about how society should organize itself?