Originally posted by no1marauderExactly what I claimed the first time. Put your glasses on.
As to your last paragraph:
LH: It is incorrect to authoritatively state that we have never met a God - plenty of people have claimed to do so throughout history. Unless every single claim has been comprehensively debunked, such a statement is, at best, ignorance and, at worst, arrogance.
What did you claim again???
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAbout 12% for alien encounters (including sighting UFOs):
Give us the numbers, then.
http://www.virtualcs.com/dsm4/lesson3_9.html
Note: this is the US only. The numbers would be much lower elsewhere in the world.
About 40% for religious experiences:
http://www.virtualcs.com/se/dxtx/types/mysticalexperience.html
I would expect these numbers to be corroborated with most countries.
Originally posted by stockenI'm not sure what I'm supposed to be arguing against in this post. 🙂
LH, honestly. I've never met anyone holding on to his arguments as vigorously as you. I admire that. 🙂
The fact that I exist, and that my existence is the only thing I can be sure of, doesn't necessarily rule out the existence of other kinds of beings. What I meant was that from the perspective of self, it is more likely that others like me would ...[text shortened]... of view, and starting to recognize your debating nature, I expect you'll argue against it.
Originally posted by lucifershammerSo...12% of the population report UFO sightings, alien encounters, etc...30-40% report some kind of mystical experience...And you somehow conclude that aliens are unlikely to exist.
About 12% for alien encounters (including sighting UFOs):
http://www.virtualcs.com/dsm4/lesson3_9.html.
A mind lacking the appropriate framework might well interpret an alien encounter as a mystical experience (and vice-versa).
Mystical experience is open to all, technically...anyone can have one. To encounter aliens, you have to be at the right place at the right time.
I'd bet that the odds of encountering an alien are statistically very low...making that 12% that much more remarkable.
Why would Americans be more likely to see aliens? There was a spate of UFO sightings in Zimbabwe at one point...
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Originally posted by lucifershammerPut your's on, dimwit.
Exactly what I claimed the first time. Put your glasses on.
LH: you assert that I claimed that people who do not believe in those who claim to see God are ignorant and arrogant. I claimed no such thing. I said it would be ignorant and arrogant to dismiss it a priori.
Now see?? You made exactly that claim.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe Drake Equation:
How can you be so sure of that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
The number of known communicating civilisations in our own galaxy, i.e. one (the human race) is about a million times higher than our current estimates. Which makes it extremely unlikely another one exists in our own galaxy. Given that, the huge interstellar distances (I do not believe FTL is physically possible) and the relative lifespan of highly evolved species, I do not believe the human race has encountered aliens in just the last quarter of a million years or so. Given that we'll probably be extinct in a few million more, there isn't enough time for us to encounter an alien race (who will have the same problem as us).
Originally posted by no1marauderNo I didn't. Read it again (and see what I've actually written - not what you'd like to think I've written).
Put your's on, dimwit.
LH: you assert that I claimed that people who do not believe in those who claim to see God are ignorant and arrogant. I claimed no such thing. I said it would be ignorant and arrogant to dismiss it a priori.
Now see?? You made exactly that claim.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage12% of the American population. And that's more than the rest of the world put together:
So...12% of the population report UFO sightings, alien encounters, etc...30-40% report some kind of mystical experience...And you somehow conclude that aliens are unlikely to exist.
A mind lacking the appropriate framework might well interpret an alien encounter as a mystical experience (and vice-versa).
Mystical experience is open to all, tech ...[text shortened]... ns be more likely to see aliens? There was a spate of UFO sightings in Zimbabwe at one point...
http://www.larryhatch.net/WESTHEMI.html
(There are lots of maps and histograms on the site you might want to check out)
My explanation of why aliens are unlikely to exist and, if they do, why we're extremely unlikely to have encountered them has been listed in another post. One thing is important to note here - unlike a mystical experience, a genuine alien encounter would definitely leave physical evidence that can be verified.
A mind lacking the appropriate framework might well interpret an alien encounter as a mystical experience (and vice-versa).
This, I agree with. In fact, most psychological literature on alien abductions agree that the abductees registered the primary impact of the experience to be spiritual (see the link I posted earlier on the 12% figure). Given this, the unlikeliness of human encounter with aliens, and the relative figures, I think that the "vice-versa" part is more likely.
Mystical experience is open to all, technically...anyone can have one.
Yes and no. Yes, anyone can have one. No, because most mystical experiences require a particular mental state of open-ness.
To encounter aliens, you have to be at the right place at the right time. I'd bet that the odds of encountering an alien are statistically very low...making that 12% that much more remarkable.
This is 12% of people reported who saw a UFO, not encountered aliens. Naturally, the number of people reporting a direct encounter with an alien would be much lower.
Why would Americans be more likely to see aliens?
Now, that's the correct question.
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Originally posted by lucifershammerMoving the goalposts again I see. Originally you were talking about people who claimed to see God, not merely those who have had "religious experiences". You pull this s**t all the time.
About 12% for alien encounters (including sighting UFOs):
http://www.virtualcs.com/dsm4/lesson3_9.html
Note: this is the US only. The numbers would be much lower elsewhere in the world.
About 40% for religious experiences:
http://www.virtualcs.com/se/dxtx/types/mysticalexperience.html
I would expect these numbers to be corroborated with most countries.
EDIT: The link you gave isn't even discussing "religious experiences" but "mystical experiences" defined as:
The mystical experience is a transient, extraordinary experience marked by feelings of being in unity, harmonious relationship to the divine and everything in existence, as well as euphoric feelings, noesis, loss of ego functioning, alterations in time and space perception, and the sense of lacking control over the event.
Not exactly "seeing God" is it?
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Originally posted by no1marauderYes, and originally I was talking about people who've directly encountered alien beings. But I have to do with the evidence available to me. You can discount both the figures by a reasonable constant factor if you want.
Moving the goalposts again I see. Originally you were talking about people who claimed to see God, not merely those who have had "religious experiences". You pull this s**t all the time.
EDIT: Your edit doesn't change what I've written above.
Originally posted by no1marauderAnd I have demonstrated why the analogy doesn't work a few pages back.
It's childish for you not to admit that you made a ridiculous claim that was shown to be ridiculous by analogy. Your attempt to say "I never said that" is a bit silly when it's in print in front of everybody.
As to what you say I claimed, I simply never claimed it. Since, as you say, it's in print in front of everybody it should be clear what I did and did not claim.