What if I'm wrong ?

If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning disability. Some people hear the Christian story, and it sweeps them away with passion for Christ. I hear the same story, and it sounds crazy to me. Not because I want to side with evil, but because it really does sounds crazy in so many ways. Does this mean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

Originally posted by buckky
If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning ...[text shortened]... ean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

There are thousands of false religions out there.............so why at the time of death would you reach for Christianity?

Originally posted by buckky
If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning ...[text shortened]... ean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

your funny🙂

Originally posted by buckky
If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning ...[text shortened]... ean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

If god provided you with the capacity for reason, why should he punish you for exercising it? For my part, I should think that god would be more pleased with someone who had an honestly reasoned doubt than with someone who had a slavish, unthinking devotion.

You can ask a similar question about sexual orientation.

There is strong evidence that your sexual preferences are to a greater extent
pre-determined at birth.

So if you say that god made people, then he also made gay people gay.

And then told everyone else to kill them....

And this is fair/just/kind/loving how?


If I die, and find myself 'at the pearly gates', I am either going to decide I am delirious,
Or if convinced I really am there, and god is real...
I am going to give him a, rather large, piece of my mind.
Because if real, the god of Christianity and the bible is pure evil.


Anyhow, the position of science and rationalism is always to accept the possibility of being
wrong and to, wherever possible, only believe things backed with sound evidence and
reason. And if better evidence/reason demonstrates an old position was wrong, to update
that position with the new evidence.

So if you turn up at the pearly gates on death, you would take this new evidence to
show that god was possibly real, (depending on how convinced you are your not in
a drug/brain damage/other induced hallucination).
However whether at that point you would also decide to worship the newly evidenced
deity...
Well that would be up to you.

But I would argue that any god that gives you reason, fails to provide any kind of evidence
of his existence, and still expects you to believe in and worship him, or spend eternity
in a fiery hell, regardless of how 'good' a life you lead otherwise...
Is not a god worth worshipping, even if real.

Originally posted by buckky
If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning ...[text shortened]... ean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

Pascal's wager?

and what if "Jumbadeng" the pogo stick jumping potato fairy who made this universe HATES people who chose to believe in Christian God because they mistakenly thought Christian god exists vs Christian god doesn't exist was a 50-50 bet either way!?

What then huh? 😲

Originally posted by Agerg
Pascal's wager?

and what if "Jumbadeng" the pogo stick jumping potato fairy who made this universe HATES people who chose to believe in Christian God because they mistakenly thought Christian god exists vs Christian god doesn't exist was a 50-50 bet either way!?

What then huh? 😲

Pascals wager? its better to be brown bread than toast!

Originally posted by rwingett
If god provided you with the capacity for reason, why should he punish you for exercising it? For my part, I should think that god would be more pleased with someone who had an honestly reasoned doubt than with someone who had a slavish, unthinking devotion.

Adolf Hitler had plenty of well thought out reasons. You can read them in his book Mien Kompf. He certainly made use of the logical mind his Creator endowed him with.

Do you think God will congradulate him ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Adolf Hitler had plenty of well thought out reasons. You can read them in his book Mien Kompf. He certainly made use of the logical mind his Creator endowed him with.

Do you think God will congradulate him ?

First you loose for bringing up Hitler...

Second, Hitler has well thought out reasons??????????????

He had reasons, they made sense to him, that doesn't make them well thought out.
Or good.

Hitler was a tyrant, and was evil.
His 'logic' was deeply flawed, his reasons, unjustified.
And I don't need any god or religion to justify that.

Third, you loose for bringing up Hitler.

Originally posted by googlefudge
First you loose for bringing up Hitler...

Second, Hitler has [b]well thought out reasons??????????????

He had reasons, they made sense to him, that doesn't make them well thought out.
Or good.

Hitler was a tyrant, and was evil.
His 'logic' was deeply flawed, his reasons, unjustified.
And I don't need any god or religion to justify that.

Third, you loose for bringing up Hitler.[/b]

He was deeply influenced by Darwinian evolutionary theory, he even termed his book,
'My struggle', and felt that stronger nations had the right to overcome and dominate
weaker nations, did he not? In fact, such thinking to him would seem quite natural.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
He was deeply influenced by Darwinian evolutionary theory, he even termed his book,
'My struggle', and felt that stronger nations had the right to overcome and dominate
weaker nations, did he not? In fact, such thinking to him would seem quite natural.

Sigh... no he wasn't...

There was an idea, that took root in several places including pre WW1 (yes WW1 not WW2) Germany,
that the phrase 'survival of the fittest' meant that the strong were meant to dominate the weak and
that allowing 'weak' people to survive and procreate the species was threatened and thus they should
be killed, or at least sterilised, and those deemed strong should mate with each other to produce even
stronger offspring.... And thus was born eugenics.

However this is a complete travesty of what the phrase 'survival of the fittest' means in evolutionary biology.

It is very late and I should be asleep so I am not going to explain why this is right now.

But I want to be absolutely clear.

Evolution, and survival of the fittest does NOT mean what they took it to mean.
And is not a justification, logical or otherwise, for what was done in its name.
It was, and is, an attempt to put a semi respectable face on bigotry and racism.
To allow those who feel themselves superior to, or threatened by, other peoples,
to do horrible and otherwise unjustifiable things under a veneer of 'science' and
respectability.

Darwin's theory of evolution does not, justify or support the actions taken by Hitler, or those who
took the phrase 'survival of the fittest' out of context, misunderstood and applied it, and then used
it to justify doing unspeakable things they wanted to do anyway.


That it was taken so badly out of context is a tragedy.
And one of the many reasons why better understanding of the theory is advisable.

EDIT: hmmm, you changed your post while I was writing mine, and the quote changed too...
don't think anything changed that alters what I say.
Did you just translate the title?
If you did I wonder why?
I'm English and have a vivid cultural memory of Hitler and what he believed and did.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Sigh... no he wasn't...

There was an idea, that took root in several places including pre WW1 (yes WW1 not WW2) Germany,
that the phrase 'survival of the fittest' meant that the strong were meant to dominate the weak and
that allowing 'weak' people to survive and procreate the species was threatened and thus they should
be killed, or at least ster m English and have a vivid cultural memory of Hitler and what he believed and did.

i am sorry i dont find anything in your statement which supports your assertions. The
fact of the matter remains that Hitler was deeply influenced by Darwin and Spencer,
your assertion that he was not is simply not true. Regardless of what it means, it was
used as a basis for the most utterly inhumane affairs, from economics and a
justification for slavery, to withholding aid from those who need it , to fomenting war. It
is well documented that Hitler stated that if the Slavs were superior then they would
overcome the Germans and vice versa, you cannot deny these realities nor try to state
that because it actually means something else, which i am not convinced by your
arguments that it does, that it somehow is not responsible for influencing individuals in
the way that it has.

Yes its late, i am wasted! I am Scottish, you are English, what of it?

Originally posted by Dasa
There are thousands of false religions out there.............so why at the time of death would you reach for Christianity?

I would never reach for Christianity because there is very little to reach for. I have been wrong about many things in my life. What makes you so sure that you have arrived at the Truth. You might have found the Truth, but how do you determine that ?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i am sorry i dont find anything in your statement which supports your assertions. The
fact of the matter remains that Hitler was deeply influenced by Darwin and Spencer,
your assertion that he was not is simply not true. Regardless of what it means, it was
used as a basis for the most utterly inhumane affairs, from economics and a
justifica ...[text shortened]...
the way that it has.

Yes its late, i am wasted! I am Scottish, you are English, what of it?

So the fact that the US and Russia won in the East and West means that those two countries are superior?

Guess that didn't add up so well, eh.

With Hitler Darwinism was a rational he grabbed and held on to tightly to justify his incomprehensible cruelties.

The right wing christian nut jobs should take heed of the results of that experiment in terror before trying to force ID or creationism to be taught in a science class to compete with evolution even though there is zero science in it.

Originally posted by buckky
If I drop dead, and find out that the Christians had the Truth, and I was all wet in my doubt, I'm not sure what my defense would be. I guess it would be time to tell the Truth and try not to worm out of it. The Truth would be it made no sense to me and that is why I rejected it. Sorry but it never rang true, and now I'm headed for Hell because of my learning ...[text shortened]... ean I'm under Satans spell, and I can't think straight ? If so then that is my defense also.

We are not saved by reason and logic, but by faith and trust.
But you can gain faith in trust by using you reason and logic
in the right way. But before this you must gain knowledge of
the truth and, for you, that may require much study.